Religion- The cause of all evil?

[*Jess*]

I saw an advert in an old magazine for a programme called this.
But it did make me think.

But firstly, this thread is for debate only. Do NOT start any bad arguing. Debating, yes, thats fine, and causes arguments, sometimes just creative ones arguing against other peoples points, that can be inevitable. But calling other people names or being just generally nasty is not a good use of this thread, is it?
Secondly, this thread isn't meant to offend anybody. I have an opinion, you have a different one. Either of them could be right. It doesn't mean I'm a bitch because I started a debate on this, its just a thing for collecting opinions, not slating other people. ok?

Anyway.

Does anyone else agree that religion could be the cause of, not necessarily all, but a lot of evil?

For one thing, most wars are started on religion. So in a sense, wars wouldn't happen half as much without religion.

Secondly, so many religions divide up people in this world, and a lot of the time people from different religions dispise each other.

Also, I have gone through life seeing a lot of kids being bullied because of their religion. This isn't right. So without religion, it could be possible for things like this, with religions against other religions, to stop.

Another thing is, that many religions are so strict, it can stop people from enjoying life as they should. Or can force things, that they wouldn't necessarily want to do if they were not part of that religion, onto these people.


These points are just brief. And there are a lot of other points that I think. But I'm only opening a debate, so I will post these later.

Discuss. hehe.

[~Wayne~]

I agree that it could be, because a lot of wars, times of fighting and major problems usually occur from one religion having problems with another. Look at Hitler and the Jews...a load of nonsense that lead to mass massacre

[Ben]

almost all the religions teach good. think of all the people who are brought up knowing the ways of their religion, they are tought to be good to people and live a good life. how does that make their upbringing the root of all evil?
even if someone is not brought up directly with religion they are bound to come across it, and will have to respect it. this will make them think about things in a different way.

apart from the terrorist-type upbringings that teach that murder is good and killing for power, even if it ends in suicide, will be praised and you will be rewarded.

[*Jess*]

All religions do teach that you are supposed to be good, and that its wrong to kill.
But it doesn't mean the religions follow that.
Look at christians and the terrorist groups in Iraq.
I only said the terrorist groups in Iraq because I couldn't remember their religion but at the moment, I'm tired.
Both those religions teach you to be good and that it is wrong to kill, but neither listen.
And a lot of wars about religion are started because of differen beliefs, but you can bet that religion teaches it is wrong to kill.
But because one religion thinks it is right and the other thinks they are right, they become rivals and fight.

[~Wayne~]

I can see what you mean but people do put a lot of problems down to religion, could just be a bad excuse though

[Ben]

good point, duroxis, there are things about some religions, like the ones that refuse to believe anything but there own version of events, that hinders modern advancements.
the catholics are believed to have killed scientists in order to stamp out the possibility that they are wrong. they refused to allow certain discoveries to be showed to the world, if for instance they proved that a certain aspect of their beliefs were untrue.
it is unacceptable for people to ignore things that they disagree with, but then again, to have faith does take a lot.

[Pearson]

Defiantly, without religion the world would be a much better place thats for sure.

[~Wayne~]

I agree with Pearson, just a shame it'll never happen eh?

[gprime]

Alot of people here are quick to assume that religion reinforces positive messages and a system of morality which preaches respect for others and non-violence. This is simply untrue. When looking at what a religion stands for, it is typical that those most often branded 'extremists' or 'fundamentalists' are, regardless of what we wish to believe, accurately representing their faith. Naturally there are exceptions to the rule, but more often than not, the above rings true. That said, it soon becomes apparent that religion is indeed the cause for a great deal of evil. However, much of the world's evil is not religious in nature. Communism, and the repressive and murderous dictators it empowered hated religion, and yet Stalin alone killed 50 million people. And terrorist groups like ALF and ELF are not inspired by religion. In fact, most of its members are likely atheist. Ultimately, with or without the existance of religion, evil would exist, as it is part of human nature.

[The Reaper]

Hitler and the Jews

Jews are also a people. It was mainly propaganda, blaming everything on the Jews, uniting the masses and gaining power.

[The Reaper]

Defiantly, without religion the world would be a much better place thats for sure.

Most people are weak, they need religion to provide some sort of order. If they start to think that there is no higher power guiding them, they would freak out and chaos would result. I'm completely serious, over the centuries, people have developed a dependence on all powerful entities. For example: My mother died, I can't deal with the pain, but I take comfort in thinking that she is in a better place.

[-Snake-]

I belive people are the root of evil not religion, Its a person's natural desire to better than someone else that causes evil. Although Religion tells people a set of rules diffrent people take it diffrent ways, I dont belive in organised religion beacuse that could very well be the root of a hell of alot of evil but beliveing in your own way individually cant hurt anyone!

[Entice]

I have to agree with Reaper.
Also most religions have rules and regulations which people are expected to obey. They teach people about love, forgiveness etc.

[Patriot1776]

I agree and disagree at the same time.

Yes, a lot of wars are sparked by religion, which is ironic because most religions are against war.

In this day and age it seems that it is not necessarily the religion itself, but people who do things and then claim it was done in the name of religion.

So yes, religion does cause war, but at the same time it is being used as an excuse to justify wars even if religion itself is not involved

[Ben]

Jews are also a people. It was mainly propaganda, blaming everything on the Jews, uniting the masses and gaining power.
Hitler was refused at Art College and lived in the street. He wanted to politically exterminate them, and when he gained power and support he did what he could to do so.

Edited.

[clueless]

I am in agreement with Greg, when he says 'people are the root of evil not religion, Its a person's natural desire to better than someone else that causes evil.' What a religion teaches and what a professed follower of that particular faith doesn't always match up. It is peoples intolerance and fear of things they do not understand, they causes wars. I don't know any world faith which advocates war and the massacuring of innocent people, do you?

[*Jess*]

I'm not saying the religion itself advocates the war. But the people who are following the religion itself do, because they disagree with the people in the different religion.
In a way, yes, people are the cause of all evil.
But people are just a thing that we can not control living on this world, religion is something we can control, well, sortof anyway.
People are a natural occurance, we can not help the evil they bring.
In a way, religion causes competitiveness.
Think of it as two football teams, and their groups of supporters.
A lot of the time one supporter will hate the opposing teams supporters yeah? And riots are caused.
It's the same with religion but on a larger scale.

[gprime]

***

You are a bloody scumbag.


***

That's entirely untrue. The situation in Germany was the biproduct of their poor decisions during the first world war.


***

Give me a break. He was rejected because he was less talented than the competition. If that's grounds for what he did, as your opening sentance would suggest, then it would seem that anybody on earth is entitled to behave similarly, as we've all experienced defeat and dissapointment.




He wanted to politically exterminate them, and when he gained power and support he did what he could to do so. ***
Well you can, if you're not a ****, that is.

Edited

[Ben]

Much like the current British situation with Muslim immigrants. Hitler was refused at Art College by Jewish directors and was forced to live in the street.

Give me a break. He was rejected because he was less talented than the competition. If that's grounds for what he did, as your opening sentance would suggest, then it would seem that anybody on earth is entitled to behave similarly, as we've all experienced defeat and dissapointment.

how much do you really know about hitler's rise to power, and before he started to try to change things?

[gprime]

how much do you really know about hitler's rise to power, and before he started to try to change things?

Quite a bit more than you. But that's irrelevant. Looking at what he did, any rational person would conclude his actions were inappropriate and completely unforgivable. He was one of the biggest scumbags to have ever walked the earth.

[Ben]

well certainly, if you choose what you want to look at and what to skip past.

i'm not saying he was right to order jews to be killed etc, anyoneto say that would have to be out of their minds. all i'm saying is he had his reasons for hating the jews, which, alone is respectable.

[Conal]

All you people need to chill out, and get reading some books, go on the internet or something and get ur facts right. People can' just jump into a debate without knowing fact from fiction. Reaper, you make me laugh. You stupidity amuses me.

[iaxa]

yeah like what conal said you can't really take a side unless you have heard both sides of the story . well thats what our history teacher says anywhos.

[Morons]

Reaper, you make me laugh. You stupidity amuses me.

Oh the irony. Conal you are an idiot. Everything I've said is true. He DID use the Jews as scapegoats.

[Luke_2009]

Though religion is a difficult subject , i do highly agree that if it was not for religion there would be much less war and disagreement.
I believe that religion (none specifically) were started as a matter of belief because there were to many possibilities and at an early stage of human development, people didn't know what to think or what was right it my seem right because it was there at the start of civilization but in the modern world what right does it have?
but now in that so many scientific discovery's have been made(not necessarily correct) but now religion has so many contradictions that there are doubts, after all it is just believes, story's and myth...

[Luke_2009]

though religion does look at all the positves and helps you to beleive and live by them because of the promise of heaven and the threat of hell (christianity)

religion is so misunderstood that its meanings got lost along the way
SCIENCE is the answer (though that also may all be a lie)

[Will1206]

Hmm....good point. (Love your sig o.-)

[tf_arl_90]

Does anyone else agree that religion could be the cause of, not necessarily all, but a lot of evil?

I think it's more often the justification of certain evils, but no, not the cause.



For one thing, most wars are started on religion. So in a sense, wars wouldn't happen half as much without religion.
Do you have any statistics that show that 50+% of wars have been directly caused by religion? I'm too lazy to look up how many have/have not, but most of the ones I can think of have political causes.


Secondly, so many religions divide up people in this world, and a lot of the time people from different religions dispise each other.
This is true. But so many people are brought together by religion. So many people have a purpose in life thanks to religion. So many people find happiness, community, charity, and love in religion. I think it's the intolerance some people have for other religions that causes "religious conflict." I'd put it down more to people who don't have respect for differences than I would to religious people.


Also, I have gone through life seeing a lot of kids being bullied because of their religion. This isn't right. So without religion, it could be possible for things like this, with religions against other religions, to stop.
I've seen more kids bullied because of the way they look, way they act, what they say, than I have what religion they follow.

Granted, where I grew up it was about evenly split between Catholics/Jews, and a small percentage was made up of other Christian denominations, Muslims, and other religions. Yet, it's not an uber-religious area, and kids here don't really have any firm religious beliefs until teen years, and even then, most people I know hate going to religious services lol

Basically my point is that kids are kids, and they'll make fun of people they find "weird." Most, unless their parents hold such views, will not care what religion the next person is. That's just my personal experience, though.


Another thing is, that many religions are so strict, it can stop people from enjoying life as they should. Or can force things, that they wouldn't necessarily want to do if they were not part of that religion, onto these people.
Same can be said about pretty much any aspect of society. When I was younger, I hated having to wear a dress and act girly, but that was my expected gender role.

People can (hopefully) choose what religion to follow, and how to follow it. There are people who choose to follow it more strictly than others. I hardly think that keeping people from "enjoying life" is a case to make against religion, since, in general, people enjoy the religion they practice.


I can understand where people are coming from when they say religion causes conflicts. Many conflicts do indeed have religious roots. But I find it hard to believe that eradicating religion would produce an ideal world, since the majority of these conflicts are not purely caused by religion.

People, I believe, are generally good. When you consider things like resource wars, nationalistic tension, ethnic tension, political goals, alliances, etc., things can get ugly, because everyone is looking to save their own ass and better things for themselves.

Divisions exist, sure, but put the cause of what you would refer to as a "religious" conflict down to people's intolerance or in some cases, extremism. It fits much better and doesn't include the peaceful, accepting religious folks.

[Rickeo]

I think you raised an interesting point here, thanks for creating such an interesting topic.

Do I believe that the world would be a better place without religion no not at all.

I think a key factor we are forgetting to see here is that do we have to put this down to religion or people misrepresenting that religion.

Let us take Christianity for example now I'm a Christian say I went out and committed mass murder on a large scale but said it was in the name of God who's fault is it mine or the Christian faith's???

9/11 Muslims hijacked airlines and committed murder on a large scale they thought they would go to paradise have 40 virgins and that what they were doing was right in the name of Allah there fault or Muslims???

George Bush/Tony Blair deploy troops to Iraq and middle eastern countries, war and again in a way murder on a large scale who's fault Christianity or there own.

These people are merely hiding themselves under the masks of religion they can say what they are doing is in the name of God but I don't think it is the Bible speaks of love peace and forgiveness (Don't start throwing Old testament verses at me, Jesus came and threw the old way of living out) So it speaks of all this but yet these people choose not to follow it.

In conclusion my only logic way of thinking would be, there is evil in this world and regardless of religion it would be there anyway, these people obviously have something very bitter inside them and whether there faith was there or not am sure they would still find ways to go to war.

Is the prime minister or the president for that matter or even the queen Christian or are they taking there faith to of context and simply saying there are of this faith due to culture or to be a little more patriotic they see the rest of the country is mainly made up of this religion so they choose to say that they are of that religion.

But do they know the true meaning of Christianity and the teachings I am not sure they do as they wouldn't do the things they do and would let God lead there lives and instead practice mercy forgiveness and love :)

Just my opinion :)

Sorry for babbling :)

Rick

[Torn Apart]

I think humans are the root of evil. But I also think that Religion helps define "evil". We all do things wrong but how me make up for them is how we define ourselves as humans.

[green hooligan]

In Saudi Arabia, women and girls suffering from obesity are not allowed outside to exercise so they will probably die from metabilic failure.

In the UK, religion is taught at the expense of all taxpayers. However, this usually turns out to be a waste of school time and taxation.

Most wars have been caused either directly or indirectly by religious groups. Religious conflicts never end.

Drought is now having a serious impact upon our ability to feed the world. People have prayed for rain for centuries but drought is like a cancerous disease that worsens by the day and will not be reversed by praying.

If we want rain to fall then we must resort to practical job-creating actions, not praying, to put water into the skies. If not then the human population will starve to death slowly.

[*Jess*]

Perhaps Religion could be argued to not be the root of evil itself, but rather the cause of a lot of evil, as previously described, due to its lack of place in the modern world.

In my opinion, a lot of rules to do with religion don't work in a modern society. They just don't. And trying to act on them is the cause of conflicts and false hope.

[Nintendus]

I don't think you can have any concept of evil without religion, but that's another matter entirely.

[tf_arl_90]

In Saudi Arabia, women and girls suffering from obesity are not allowed outside to exercise so they will probably die from metabilic failure.
This isolated example accounts for all the evil in the world?


In the UK, religion is taught at the expense of all taxpayers. However, this usually turns out to be a waste of school time and taxation.
What does this have to do with evil in the world? Sounds like a fault of the education system more than anything else.


Most wars have been caused either directly or indirectly by religious groups. Religious conflicts never end.
Really?


Drought is now having a serious impact upon our ability to feed the world. People have prayed for rain for centuries but drought is like a cancerous disease that worsens by the day and will not be reversed by praying.

If we want rain to fall then we must resort to practical job-creating actions, not praying, to put water into the skies. If not then the human population will starve to death slowly.
Or people could "resort to practical job-creating" and still pray. Both can happen simultaneously, you know.

I really think the issues facing the world today are much more complex than just "religion is the cause of this, let's get rid of it" (not that you've blatantly suggested the latter.)


but rather the cause of a lot of evil, as previously described, due to its lack of place in the modern world.
It has a tremendous place in the modern world, doesn't it?


In my opinion, a lot of rules to do with religion don't work in a modern society. They just don't. And trying to act on them is the cause of conflicts and false hope.
Like which?

[green hooligan]

Arguments for and against religion can be personal and complex and will rage forevermore.

I am a non-believer. Should I therefore be killed by an Islamic?

Throughout my life I have seen the clergy in the UK do good work. On the other hand, I have read many reports suggesting some clergymen are less than trustworthy.

People everywhere have the right to be religious and to express their opinions. It is therefore a matter for them and if they wish to argue then they will be at it forever because the issues are incredibly complex and time-consuming.

[lipgloss]

Religion is huge! There's Christianity to Satinisum.

[Teddy Bear]

I think that at the same time that religion devides people it sure brings alot of people together perhaps making it less likely that they will harm people of the same faith. Who knows how many wars that would have been fought if there were no such thing as religion to keep atleast a few billion people more tolerant towards eachother?

[lipgloss]

Has anybody heard of the illuminati? ( I hope I spelt it right...) Well, if it's counted as a religion, then I'm definitely against it!! It's pretty sick what they do... definitely nothing good about it. And if war is what we're talking about, I read somewhere that G.Bush (along with many top leaders of the world) is apart of a very weird secret society called "skull and bones", and they are definitely all pro-war, death, and yucky stuff like that. I mean, G.Bush may call himself a Christian, ... but geez, I dunno.

[Nintendus]

I do think religion has been a cause of evil in this world, and I still think it is a problem. I don't think it should be however, and I also think it has brought tremendous good.

Chesterton says it well:
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried."

[StripesNGoggles]

I think people are the cause of all evil, actually...

[PJV575]

I have a big problem with religions, actually. I don't mind spirituality at all, but I hate structured religion. It really just messes everything in the world up.

I could rant and get all technical, but honestly, this is a forum, and I don't feel the need, lol.

[Nintendus]

I have a big problem with religions, actually. I don't mind spirituality at all, but I hate structured religion. It really just messes everything in the world up.

I could rant and get all technical, but honestly, this is a forum, and I don't feel the need, lol.
But it is the debate forum. So you should give us something ;P:P.

[PJV575]

But it is the debate forum. So you should give us something ;P:P.

Good point.

And with that, I take my leave! :p







Hahaha, just kidding. Well, I suppose you can look at the entire Islam vs. Christianity issue. Think of it this way: With the major religions of today, there was first Judaism and the Torah. Then, if you will, think of Christianity of an expansion pack of Judaism where they believe Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior of the world. Now, think of Islam as an expansion pack of Judaism and Christianity, where they don't believe Jesus Christ as their savior, but believe he is more important than Judaism thinks he is. Also, even though Islam follows the same "path" (books and stories) as Christianity and Judaism, they believe that their views of the books are distorted, but still the books are the same (the First Testament, that is).

Well, I'm kinda just blabbing on and on. So it comes down to this: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all based around the same exact damned principle, yet all 3 disagree and fight (not so much Judaism with Christianity) with one another. They all agree that one should be accepting of others, yet here they are destroying each other because of slightly modified views of the same faith.

I don't know, it just bothers me.

[teresa_green]

I think that religion could be a big cause of some of the problems in the world but the name of that programme is very biased

[Nintendus]

Well, I'm kinda just blabbing on and on. So it comes down to this: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all based around the same exact damned principle, yet all 3 disagree and fight (not so much Judaism with Christianity) with one another. They all agree that one should be accepting of others, yet here they are destroying each other because of slightly modified views of the same faith.
'Slightly modified' is an under-exageration however. If Jesus, as Christians contend, is the only way to the father then that is a huge difference in their belief systems. I would like to suggest that the relationship between the Abrahamic religions is more like a complex sum. They all started off with the initial calculations, but some perhaps produced errors along the way. There can only however be one correct answer ultimately. All of them might well have missed this answer, but as long as there can only be one answer. Only one of them can have hit on the exact truth.

To that extent I reject the idea that are are all ultimately following the same principle or modified views of the same faith.

I do agree that often they are intolerant towards each other. This is quite sad though, as I believe certainly Christian doctrine teaches exactly the opposite. I cannot speak for Mohammedans or Jews.

[-Luke-]

Well we can argue that religion is more of a force of chaos than harmony, look at the 9/11 attacks, 7/7, and Northern Ireland. And its mostly dominant cultures that see minority cultures in a negative light.
Structured religions are mainly about money, sorry, but it has to be said, no religion is original and all borrow stuff from other religions which causes intolerance. It is not religion that causes intolerance. It is intolerance that uses religion that "The leaders of such movements [are] using moral and religious language as a cloak for evil and irreligious ends"and that "religions are not the causes of evil, but they do naturally share in the general moral state of the societies in which they exist.
People taking religion out of context, such as the 9/11 attacks, by a fundamental religious group to cause terror, the terror is what is says, to cause terror and undermine faith in the establishment, not in the name of religion. After all, an aetheist wouldnt blow up Vatican city in the name of Science.

Then religion can be used as a force of harmony, for moral structure and comfort. As a place to turn to when we or society are in a state of confusion and normlessness. It creates a collective coscience that makes social like possible. these shared ideas constitute the fundamental notions of time, space, causation and relationships that allow man to think logically. It helps us to know what is right and wrong is a broad scale. Religion therefore acts to bind individuals to society, allowing them to understand and enact correct social relations between individuals through shared values of relgious belief.

So religion - Only evil if you look at it from an exclusive view
Only good if you look at it from an inclusive view.

[Glamour_Love]

Religion does cause a lot of wars and other bad things in the world, BUT if religion didn't exist people would only find another thing that makes us different and use that as a starting point for wars etc.

[Perla de Oro]

GPrime, I just want to explain something to you. I noticed your signature, and just so you know I live in a country where the majority of the population is Islam. There is nothing wrong with Islam, it does not endorse murder, terrorism or any other kind of crime.
Before you put things like that in your signature, you need to know the full story. You only know one half, which is that there were terrorists, and that they were Islamic. Now, look at how many Islamic terrorists there are in the world, then look at the rest of the Muslim population. There are murderers who are Christian, yet we do nott call Christians evil. You condemned hundreds upon thousands of people you don't even know, and called them evil. There's something wrong with that.

[eukaryote]

Religion is not the cause of all evil. Crazy people are. In every religion, there are crazy members who believe that their religion is the one and only right one, and that anyone against/not a member of their religion must die. It's that small number of people that give religion a bad name.

I personally am a religious person, and I don't believe my religion is the one and only right one, or that it's even 100% correct, and I don't want to start a war over it. I don't even care what religion you are, or if you have a religion at all.

[mandude]

Religion is not the cause of all evil. Crazy people are. In every religion, there are crazy members who believe that their religion is the one and only right one, and that anyone against/not a member of their religion must die. It's that small number of people that give religion a bad name.Agreed. If there was no religion, the same people would find another means of expressing their assholery.