Bring back capital punishment

[Luke]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006240558,00.html

Bastards.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Hang the bastards.

[God.]

You made me read the sun :O

Oh dear.

They should live out the rest of their lives in solitary confinement.

[Luke]

No, they should die.

[God.]

They will, eventually.
But dying now is too easy.

[Pearson]

I agree with forest, there should be no place for these thugs in our society, Plain and simple. They are scum.

[Luke]

They will, eventually.
But dying now is too easy.

Not if it's a slow and painful one.

[gprime]

There is a problem with your what you want fcuk4forest. If the UK did bring back the death penalty, no doubt they'd modernize the method of execution, and use lethal injection. And really, don't you think a fucking needle in the arm is better 50 years of assraping, malnourishment, and violence in prison? So that would be the easy way out. The only way we could justify bringing back the death penalty is if done in a truely prolonged and pain-inspiring manner, such a torture, followed by crusifixion.

[Luke]

Hang the bastard I say.

[God.]

Quick and almost painless.

If their neck isn't broken, within 5 minutes their dead.

Very quick, too quick.

[Luke]

Ah well, at least we eliminate them from the world. More space in our prisons.

[NATAL!E]

I've said for ages capital punishment should be brought back. I think it's disgusting the shits on the streets can murder, and be walking free in no time at all for good behaviour.

Yeah, some people really do pay for what they've done, but a lot also don't. Not in my eyes anyway.

Look at the Jamie Bulger case for prime example. I think what them lads did was absolutely disgusting. I really do. And they were considering being let out, with name changes, because they were 'too young to know what they were doing'. Fuck that, they knew full well, yet they're let off for it in the eyes of the law, like so many other criminals.

Even in schools, punishments have no effect on student behaviour. In my school I think it's bloody disgraceful. A kid can behave like an imbocile, and be sent into a GCSE class, to sit with the head of the subject teacher, and disrupt that lesson as well. And nothing is done about how they acted in the first place. Then again, some students are just sent to isolation, where they just sit there for a few hours. At least when kids were hit with rulers, they behaved.

I'm sidetracking now, but ah. I think the death penalty should be brought back in the UK. America still has it, doesn't it? So why can't the UK have it too. I like the police over here are too soft. I mean, you see videos of American cops beating up people and putting the shits in their place. Murderers get the death penalty etc etc. Whilst over here, people get their wrists slapped for beating up a pensioner and murderers get let out in half the time on good behaviour.

We had a discussion in class a few weeks ago about bringing capital punishment back. Some of the chavs said, "What if people were killed and it was a miscarriage of justice?". Yeah, it's happened on the odd occasion, but with today's technology, they wouldn't be getting it wrong time and time again. And especially with cases like this of Daniel Pollen, and others like Jamie Bulger, there's CCTV, eye witness accounts and so much evidence. How could that be a false conviction?

So in my eyes, bring it back. It's the only way this country will really restore law and order. Most kids aren't scared of the police these days, so what are they going to be like when they grow up? The future generations will consist of hooligans and yobs dominating over the streets and attacking anyone and everyone when they feel like it.

Oh, and also. I don't see prison as torture at all really. Arse-rapings, malnutiriton and being locked inside isn't the same as real torture, where people are killed.

[lana loo]

i agree with you there huni, but there are more sides to the argument, for and against capital punishment. fair enough, if you have killed then its only fair that your life is taken, but what right has anyone got to take a life though? 'an eye for an eye' is a common sayin for this subject but if you take a life then arent you as bad as them?

also, another argument against captial punushment is religious. many religions say that God is the only one who has the right to take life. he gave the soul he takes the soul. they also beleive that Jesus said 'forgive someone 77 times' everyones entitled to a second chance to reform. and trust me it can be done. (soz a got a bit carried away with my R.E knowlegde lol)

i personally think that it shouldnt be brought back, there are different ways of punishing criminals than taking their life. death is the last-resort and their is no turning back on it.

yeah u mite want them to have a slow n painful death, but it'd all end in the same way. they'll feel no more pain yeah. after its all done, they wont regret fuck all, they'll be dead!! lol but ...... put them in solatry confindment for years on end, they're goin to suffer alot longer and regret the whole thing alot longer and acctually wana be dead. but you wont give them that privilage to die. see what i mean .....

[Lindsay]

wow i read that jamie bluger case and its so sad.
people are so f*cked up.
I think the death penalty shouldn't be brought back. Put the criminals in isolation for 20 years or something but they don't deserve the easy way out.

[lana loo]

exactly huni! i like the way you think!!

[gprime]

Fender chiq, as per your question, it is on a state by state basis. For more specific info, go here (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state/). For other US death penalty info click here (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/). Also, see the following charts:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8818/dpyearlysentences7mi.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5569/dpexecutions8zh.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9198/dpstatedifs8lr.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9463/dpexbystate0mw.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2752/dpper1000inmates4hk.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4898/dpmethod0dj.gif

As per the beatings you referenced, which I agree are good, context is important. For example, the infamous Rodney King beating occured because he was going 3 times the speed limit in a residential zone, while high on crack and armed. Most people assume US police actually beat criminals regularly. Sadly, that is not the case, with that which you are referencing been the rare exception.

While I agree with you when you say "arse-rapings, malnutiriton and being locked inside isn't the same as real torture, where people are killed," it still involves more suffering than a quick execution. So if bring back the death penalty, you need to restore brutality with it. This is one instance where we could stand to learn from the Romans. I'd suggest we follow Muslim example on the matter too, though that would involve the executioner dying too.

==

Now, as per some of lana loo's comments:

The equivocal arguement is bullshit and you know it. That's like saying killing Hitler would make you no better than him. And no rational person would buy that. Do you really think a painless death for a murderous pedophile makes you as bad as him? I should hope not.

Your question of who has the right to take a life is interesting. In theory, nobody has any rights, and the concept is an artificial one established to lay a foundation for organized civilization. But if a person does not recognize themselves as a part of said civilization, are they still bound by its laws? Logic says no, but practicality mandates otherwise. Thus, there is an artificial agreement established by the citizenry to abide by legal code which governms their society. As such, who has the right to murder is relative to the standards of a given society. For example, in Nazi Germany, any Aryan had the legal right to kill Jews. Looking retrospectively, did the laws of that society seem appropriate or fair? No. So then, the concept of "to each his own" applies somewhat. Since everbody has a different opinion, a definite answer to the question is impossible. For example, I would suggest that anybody, anywhere in the world has the right to kill any pure ethnic Croatian. Most people would disagree. But the concept is no less sound that the legal policies of many foreign governments. This then means that your abstract question is impossible to answer, and thus serves no point.

Your religious arguement is an utterly absurd one. Surely if this were Iran or Syria you would be correct. But in a Western democracy, surely the concept of freedom of religion must apply. As such, setting legal policy by the belief of any religion is inherently illegal.

Your ultimate conclusion is partially correct. If is true that regardless of how death is acheived the end is the same. However, I would disagree that jailtime is necissarily most effective. For example, two consecutive weeks of inhumane torture on Pay-Per-View followed by a public crucifixion would certainly be worse than 20+ years in jail. And the idea that they will suffer in jail is not a given. Those with the size advantage or the connections will not be raped and can easily be smuggled goods. And emotional anguish is unlikely given the difference in the chemical structure and balance of the brain of a serial killer when contrasted to that of a "normal" individual.

Given that, I agree with you to the extent that for now the death penalty has no place. If however we made it truely brutal, to the point where it was far worse than jail, then I would get right alongside fender chiq and call for it. Of course, if I did so, since I support tough legal penalties, I'd call for it to be implemented for lesser crimes such as theft or vandalism.

[JustRide10]

I say we leave them in prision for the rest of their lives alone. No other prisioners and slowly starve them to death. Starve them to a point were their about to die, but don't let them. Make them suffer, and during this pain give them terrible tourture. That may finally teach those dirty mother f***in thugs.

[magic_bugger]

Knife culture is at a sickening level now in the UK.

I say tie them up to a big bolder, and get their victims' friends and family to go upto the attackers and do what they like to him.

[Feign]

Addressing points sporadically:

i) Eye for an eye - in JB's case, does that mean those involved would too have to be beaten, have batteries shoved up their ass and left for dead only to later be severed in two by a train? If so, who would carry out such action on the states behalf?
ii) You all seem to have a huge misconception of prison life. Less HBO, please. You might want to refer to Zimbardo's 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment to see what effects it has on the Average Joe. Sadly, that's not the reality of it all. Prison, compared to street life, could almost be considered as desirable. Regardless of what you hear or see around and about, prison is simply an enclosed community. If you think people are denied of the liberties accessible in every day life, you're very much mistaken. Everyone has a price.
iii) Consider how much of the tax payers money is invested in the system. Every day, some of your hard earned money is providing a better life for some two bit piece of shit behind bars. And execution? It costs even more. Seven figures in most cases. In respect to economics, you can't take the moral highground and win.
iv) There's always the possibility of a wrong conviction. Watch 'The Life Of David Gayle'

However, you could let them starve to death. Its suffering at their own expense. They get to feel their body feed off of itself until there is no longer any muscle to support even the most trivial of movement. Then they just lay there, rotting away, until their last breath. Its a process that causes both physical and emotional torment. You know you're going to die, but you can't control when. You have to wait it out, and it's not quick.

The problem is, it's not humane either. Some pretentious bastard always has to point that out :(

[tf_arl_90]

also, another argument against captial punushment is religious. many religions say that God is the only one who has the right to take life. he gave the soul he takes the soul. they also beleive that Jesus said 'forgive someone 77 times' everyones entitled to a second chance to reform. and trust me it can be done. (soz a got a bit carried away with my R.E knowlegde lol)
I live in the US, where capital punishment has been abolished by some states but still exists in others. While I agree capital punishment should be abolished completely, religion should play no part in the justice system. Then again, neither should revenge, which is exactly what capital punishment is.


"What if people were killed and it was a miscarriage of justice?". Yeah, it's happened on the odd occasion, but with today's technology, they wouldn't be getting it wrong time and time again.
"Odd occasion"? Actually, it happens a lot more than you think. I don't have the exact statistics, but it certainly has happened and continues to happen even with advanced technology. Even so, I personally do not see how you can possibly justify the execution of an innocent person. Murder is wrong, unless the person has killed someone else, right? Hm. And if they haven't killed someone else and the justice system screws them over, their execution is okay? I don't see how that makes sense.

Keep in mind that once a person is executed, the majority of the time the case is not investigated further. What does this mean? Well if the person happened to be innocent, and the case is forgotten about, I guess he's never going to be proven innocent. I guess for this reason we will underestimate the number of innocent people executed. And I guess the true criminal will be free to walk the streets, posing a real risk to society.

The system is fucked and it needs to be abolished.


So in my eyes, bring it back. It's the only way this country will really restore law and order.
So you believe capital punishment is a deterrent then? You believe capital punishment prevents future crimes from happening?

[tf_arl_90]

Ah well, at least we eliminate them from the world. More space in our prisons.
More space in prisons? Yeah, overcrowding is a problem. But capital punishment doesn't really help make room since only a small percentage of capital cases actually end in execution and the defendent ends up sitting in prison anyway.

Capital cases are ridiculously long and ridiculously expensive. Much more so than other murder trials. And all the money spent on these cases could be used to build *more* prisons. It could be used to strengthen police forces. It could be used towards education on gang violence, drug abuse, etc. You know, stuff that actually reduces crime?

A decrease in crime rates would be nice.

[NATAL!E]

I believe capital punishment is a deterrant, because people will think twice before doing something which is against the law. And it should start in schools when the children are young enough to realise the differences between right and wrong, and are actually taught this. Often parents bring up children to completely disregard the rights and wrongs of life, and they don't care!

In the 70's, where I live, people used to be scared of the police and what might happen if they did something wrong and the police AND their parents found out. It's the complete opposite now. Even the teenagers dont give two shits about law and order these days.

And of course I mean the death penalty for murder, a life for a life.

Like I said, the Jamie Bulger case, those two lads didn't care what they were doing to that poor boy. They were ruthless and brutal, and that's fair on a 2 year old boy? And those two lads were going to be let out a couple of years ago on good behaviour and all that. In my eyes, they should suffer and die for what they did.

[tf_arl_90]

I believe capital punishment is a deterrant, because people will think twice before doing something which is against the law.

Hm. I disagree. I think anyone who commits a murder or murders is a sick and disturbing individual. There is literally something wrong with them. While I think there should definitely be punishment and a way to keep them from harming society further (life imprisonment), I don't think capital punishment really deters murderers from murdering. They're often in such a fit of rage that they don't consider the consequences. I doubt someone sick enough to commit such a horrible crime is going to stop and think, "Gee, if I do this, I could be executed." They want the person dead and they will go to pretty much any length to get it done.


And it should start in schools when the children are young enough to realise the differences between right and wrong, and are actually taught this. Often parents bring up children to completely disregard the rights and wrongs of life, and they don't care!
Yes, I agree with you here. I think discipline is extremely important from a young age on. Morals are good.

But I'm a little confused. You said you think "it should start in schools"...what is "it"?


In the 70's, where I live, people used to be scared of the police and what might happen if they did something wrong and the police AND their parents found out. It's the complete opposite now. Even the teenagers dont give two shits about law and order these days.
Rational people tend to be afraid of the police. Murderers are not rational people. And even in today's world when you say regular people are not afraid of police, I don't think that means they're going to become a murderer worthy of execution. It means, like you said, good morals should be instilled in people as children.


Like I said, the Jamie Bulger case, those two lads didn't care what they were doing to that poor boy. They were ruthless and brutal, and that's fair on a 2 year old boy? And those two lads were going to be let out a couple of years ago on good behaviour and all that. In my eyes, they should suffer and die for what they did.
Of course it's unfair to the two year old. I agree that it's absolutely disgusting. But I don't think executing them is solving the problem, because I truly do not believe it is a deterrent. And I don't think executing the murderers will cure the pain the family of the boy is going through.

[horsey gal]

I believe capital punishment is a deterrant, because people will think twice before doing something which is against the law. And it should start in schools when the children are young enough to realise the differences between right and wrong, and are actually taught this. Often parents bring up children to completely disregard the rights and wrongs of life, and they don't care!

i agree. were i live there isnt alot of care for athority, especially in younger people. much of the kids at school are horribly dissrespectful to any one out side of there gang of firends or family, wether it be teachers or other students, and by kids i mean ranging from as young as 9 or 10 to about 16. the kids parents dont care to punish them. there was a huge problem with kids bunking( skipping classes ) all the time , or coming late to school. its better now but still.


And I don't think executing the murderers will cure the pain the family of the boy is going through.

nothing will ever cure the pain a family would feel in a situation like that or any situation were some one much loved is lost. but it can give a sence of closure that the mother f*#kers who did the deed are unable to hurt anyone else and they are now gone. even put in prision wont really do much for punishment against such a disgusting act as far as i see it.

inside the walls prisioners end up forming gangs , smuggling weapons, drugs or whatever, they end up fighting with each other, it doesnt set them up for when they are then released back into the public after there sentence is up. as far as im concerned people are to soft with ther own kind. we seem to have this set way of thinkning that 'o no we cant kill them they are human' ' that would be barbaric, inhumae. i say skrew that, if that person has deliberatly set out to fatilly hurt someone then they dont deserve to live, they show no compassion towards there actions why should they be treated with dignity or any respect. if every human life is important than why is a murderer or violent offender given a chance to strike again, things like bail are total shit and shouldnt exist. i no you nessiserily give bail to a murderer but violent people can still seem to get it.

i say a criminal should be treated just how they treated there victom. sounds harsh and barbaric especially if the crime was like choping off someones limb or somthing but whatever. sure some times they do change and better them selves but a large majority stick to a life of crime, as even in prision crime is all around them and those are the ones that need be desposed of for good. some one who has repedietly comitted crimes and show no interest to change should be put to death as they are purely a mennise and wasting space and time.

violent crimes should be dealt with accordingly. if they cant be prooved mentaly ill then they are scum and dangerous, help provided but if they dont shape up get rid of them.

some think that helping them with counsling is the way to go not harsher punishment but i think not really. im ok for giving a second chance in some circumstances but if they dont learn from there first mistake they are a bunch of morrons and dont deserve any more. thats the problem today people are givein to many chances , the soft approach i would think wouldnt have much effect as alot of people that become criminals have had a rough growing up or maby disfunctional family situations and arnt used to that type of ....handling so dont take to it.

[shg904]

You'd never be abl;e to bring back the death penalty in Britain. Just look at Iraq, they hung Saddam and still theres people being blown up. Capital punishment doesnt work. Stricter laws would work better. If the police wernt such a bunch of ponces now a days as well. My dad used to be in the London Met in the 80's and he tells me all these stories of how they used to treat prisoners. The prisoners wouldnt get away with anything. Now with all this political correctness and health and safety rules the UK has become nothing more then a nanny state. We do nothing but help the criminals that cause all these crimes.

An eye for an eye doesnt work either. If one person from a family is murdered, that causes grief to the whole family, and the same would happen to murderers family, not as if their family did anything wrong.

As for capital punishment as a detterent it doesnt work, cos if you plan a murder, you'd work harder to make sure you dont get caught. Yet more often then not its a sorta on the moment thing.

[tf_arl_90]

nothing will ever cure the pain a family would feel in a situation like that or any situation were some one much loved is lost. but it can give a sence of closure that the mother f*#kers who did the deed are unable to hurt anyone else and they are now gone. even put in prision wont really do much for punishment against such a disgusting act as far as i see it.
I don't personally believe closure can be achieved by every family. Will it truly give them closure? Will all families want the murderer to be executed? Not really. This is a weak argument.

Not only that, but capital cases take a tremendous amount of time. The trials take much longer than other murder trials. Most spend about a decade or more waiting on death row before they are actually executed. This long, drawn out process isn't exactly easy for the families involved.


inside the walls prisioners end up forming gangs , smuggling weapons, drugs or whatever, they end up fighting with each other, it doesnt set them up for when they are then released back into the public after there sentence is up.
So, only prisoners who have been convicted for murder do this? Because if you truly believe this happens, which I'm not saying it doesn't, then I would think this argument should hold true for all prisoners. Are you proposing we execute everyone because there's a chance of conflicts within prisons? Wouldn't the better solution be to improve prison conditions and work on rehab programs?

I'm fairly certain that in the first two years, those waiting on death row, (at least here in the US) are kept completely separate from other prisoners, spending the majority of their day locked up in their private cells. I'm not sure what the conditions are after that, to be honest. And while they're waiting, there's the constant uncertainty of execution. You don't think this has an effect on people?


as far as im concerned people are to soft with ther own kind. we seem to have this set way of thinkning that 'o no we cant kill them they are human' ' that would be barbaric, inhumae. i say skrew that, if that person has deliberatly set out to fatilly hurt someone then they dont deserve to live, they show no compassion towards there actions why should they be treated with dignity or any respect. if every human life is important than why is a murderer or violent offender given a chance to strike again, things like bail are total shit and shouldnt exist. i no you nessiserily give bail to a murderer but violent people can still seem to get it.
Again, do you feel the death penalty should be given for every murder? It's still the taking of an innocent life by a sick psychopath. A family is still going to suffer. Why would one innocent person's life be worth more than another?


i say a criminal should be treated just how they treated there victom. sounds harsh and barbaric especially if the crime was like choping off someones limb or somthing but whatever. sure some times they do change and better them selves but a large majority stick to a life of crime, as even in prision crime is all around them and those are the ones that need be desposed of for good. some one who has repedietly comitted crimes and show no interest to change should be put to death as they are purely a mennise and wasting space and time.
So you're all for the "eye for an eye" thing, eh? Too bad that's only supposed to apply to the guilty. We say the taking of an innocent life is a horrible crime, and I truly believe that. So how could you possibly justify a system which has time and time again done just that?!

[horsey gal]

Quote: (Originally Posted by horsey gal)
nothing will ever cure the pain a family would feel in a situation like that or any situation were some one much loved is lost. but it can give a sence of closure that the mother f*#kers who did the deed are unable to hurt anyone else and they are now gone. even put in prision wont really do much for punishment against such a disgusting act as far as i see it.

I don't personally believe closure can be achieved by every family. Will it truly give them closure? Will all families want the murderer to be executed? Not really. This is a weak argument.

Not only that, but capital cases take a tremendous amount of time. The trials take much longer than other murder trials. Most spend about a decade or more waiting on death row before they are actually executed. This long, drawn out process isn't exactly easy for the families involved.

well no i wouldnt think every family would feel closure i meant that some do see it that way not all, and ya i know they take ages which is hard on the family that im sure would like to move on.



Quote: (Originally Posted by horsey gal)
inside the walls prisioners end up forming gangs , smuggling weapons, drugs or whatever, they end up fighting with each other, it doesnt set them up for when they are then released back into the public after there sentence is up.

So, only prisoners who have been convicted for murder do this? Because if you truly believe this happens, which I'm not saying it doesn't, then I would think this argument should hold true for all prisoners. Are you proposing we execute everyone because there's a chance of conflicts within prisons? Wouldn't the better solution be to improve prison conditions and work on rehab programs?


well when i said it doesnt seem set up for them when they are released thats were a rehab programe or somthing should come in. like some were else i said i wouldnt mind giving a second chance :eg rehab to help them but then even after help if they go and still comit crimes without caring than ya get rid of them.

honeslty its more than just conflict in prisions, the gangs and stuff seem just as bad inside a prision than it is outside. on a rescent doco about the largest gang in America it stated much of the power and control was actually coming from criminal gang leaders from inside a prision,along with other info and docos i have seen , which in my eyes says that prision doesnt really form any type of punisment, well not any more any way.


Again, do you feel the death penalty should be given for every murder? It's still the taking of an innocent life by a sick psychopath. A family is still going to suffer. Why would one innocent person's life be worth more than another?


yea i guess so. im sick of hearing about murder or violence, especialy when its somthing petty like revenge or gang shit, the world doesnt need it. and ya and innocent person i would think would be worth more than another , if the other is willing to kill someone then why should we care about them they are no longer an innocent person, they become a criminal capable of murder , uncaring for there victum so they deserve no care for them. man slaughter is slighty different but yea.


So you're all for the "eye for an eye" thing, eh? Too bad that's only supposed to apply to the guilty. We say the taking of an innocent life is a horrible crime, and I truly believe that. So how could you possibly justify a system which has time and time again done just that?!

yea pretty much, but i am also for giving someone a chance first but if they still descide to carry on the way they are then they should go, its hard enough for someone to live there life they dont need the threat of some morron out to kill.

[Jawa]

Keeping those people in prison is pointless, as is killing them.
As humans one of our goals should be coming up with practical solu^s to problems.

I say, anyone worthy of Capital Punishment should just get drafted into the army. No if's or but's. If they enjoy killing people, just get them to do it in our favor.

[tf_arl_90]

Again, do you feel the death penalty should be given for every murder? It's still the taking of an innocent life by a sick psychopath. A family is still going to suffer. Why would one innocent person's life be worth more than another?

yea i guess so. im sick of hearing about murder or violence, especialy when its somthing petty like revenge or gang shit, the world doesnt need it. and ya and innocent person i would think would be worth more than another , if the other is willing to kill someone then why should we care about them they are no longer an innocent person, they become a criminal capable of murder , uncaring for there victum so they deserve no care for them. man slaughter is slighty different but yea.
You don't think executions are violent? You don't think they're about revenge? Do you consider killing a criminal to be murder?


well when i said it doesnt seem set up for them when they are released thats were a rehab programe or somthing should come in. like some were else i said i wouldnt mind giving a second chance :eg rehab to help them but then even after help if they go and still comit crimes without caring than ya get rid of them.
I agree that rehab programs should be improved.


honeslty its more than just conflict in prisions, the gangs and stuff seem just as bad inside a prision than it is outside. on a rescent doco about the largest gang in America it stated much of the power and control was actually coming from criminal gang leaders from inside a prision,along with other info and docos i have seen , which in my eyes says that prision doesnt really form any type of punisment, well not any more any way.
If prison doesn't serve any type of punishment on its own, why is it acceptable punishment for lesser crimes?


yea pretty much, but i am also for giving someone a chance first but if they still descide to carry on the way they are then they should go, its hard enough for someone to live there life they dont need the threat of some morron out to kill.
Do you feel that the government executing 10 guilty people is worth it, even if one innocent person is wrongfully executed?

[tf_arl_90]

I say, anyone worthy of Capital Punishment should just get drafted into the army. No if's or but's. If they enjoy killing people, just get them to do it in our favor.

Interesting.

[Chris]

I say, anyone worthy of Capital Punishment should just get drafted into the army. No if's or but's. If they enjoy killing people, just get them to do it in our favor.

The problem with that is what if the homicidal murderer decides to kill someone from his own side, what's to stop him shooting the guy he's stood next to? It may be practical to use prisoners for something, but they just can't be trusted. I mean, if you were in the Army and you knew that the guy who was supposed to be watching your back was a delusional psychopathic murderer, how safe would you feel?

[horsey gal]

Quote: (Originally Posted by horsey girl)
Quote: (Originally Posted by tf_arl_90)
Again, do you feel the death penalty should be given for every murder? It's still the taking of an innocent life by a sick psychopath. A family is still going to suffer. Why would one innocent person's life be worth more than another?


yea i guess so. im sick of hearing about murder or violence, especialy when its somthing petty like revenge or gang shit, the world doesnt need it. and ya and innocent person i would think would be worth more than another , if the other is willing to kill someone then why should we care about them they are no longer an innocent person, they become a criminal capable of murder , uncaring for there victum so they deserve no care for them. man slaughter is slighty different but yea.

You don't think executions are violent? You don't think they're about revenge? Do you consider killing a criminal to be murder?

lol damn. well ok yea, technically it is about revenge and murder i guess. more so revenge than closure too proberly. but have we not taken the ' nice ' approach and it is not working, criminals in prision dont exactly seem to be ready to settle down and
' be good ' just frome being in there, half the time they get out and still comit crimes. so they shouldnt be aloud to live because they are causing unessisary pain and annoyance .... they get a second chance and are warned, if they dont listen its there own fault , so saying that they basicly set them self up to die..... it may be seen as a violent act but if somthing like uthinasia was used i would not see it as exactly violent. youd get rid of a dangerous dog or bear simple as that and it wouldnt be revenge or violent but we seem to think killing a murderer is . is he not just as as dangerous ? is he not even more dangerous ? people are supposed to be presious ( sp? ) and valuble yet when some one takes another ' valuable , presious ' life hes able to live.. there for get away with it. i dont see killing a murderer as bad or violent as its not done in a way that he killed his victum, so its not so closly comparable.


If prison doesn't serve any type of punishment on its own, why is it acceptable punishment for lesser crimes?

it isnt. well i dont think so. if prison laws/ rules hardend up maby it would. but its soft and pansy at the moment. which is why criminals cant seem to get out of that state of mind and way of living. through tougher prisons and rehab before they are released i would hope would make a difference. tougher prisions would ;ay out strict rules and should inforce obedience, rehab should set them up for a better life when they are released.


Do you feel that the government executing 10 guilty people is worth it, even if one innocent person is wrongfully executed?
well thats the thing i dont like, the risk of killing an inoccent person. there would need to be extremely solid evidence of the murder. but even still it will happen. we have better technology nowdays but i dont think thats a risk that will ever be taken away.
but then that is 10 guilty people gone from this world forever.

[tf_arl_90]

lol damn. well ok yea, technically it is about revenge and murder i guess. more so revenge than closure too proberly.

So we both agree it's about revenge. I feel that revenge should play no part in the justice system.


but have we not taken the ' nice ' approach and it is not working, criminals in prision dont exactly seem to be ready to settle down and
' be good ' just frome being in there, half the time they get out and still comit crimes. so they shouldnt be aloud to live because they are causing unessisary pain and annoyance .... they get a second chance and are warned, if they dont listen its there own fault , so saying that they basicly set them self up to die.....

Again, there is always conflict in prisons. It's inevitable. I don't think executing people just because they cause trouble is solving anything. I think perhaps we should focus on improving conditions within prisons to reduce this.


it may be seen as a violent act but if somthing like uthinasia was used i would not see it as exactly violent.

I can understand you believing that when it is administered properly. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/26/opinion/26weds1.html?ex=1303704000&en=de93fd90874fdae9&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
^^ Check this out. If you don't feel like reading it, this more or less sums it up: "In a 'friend of the court' brief, Physicians for Human Rights warned that if the chemicals weren't used correctly, they could 'cause an inmate to suffocate, while consciously experiencing the blinding pain of' a coronary arrest. Meanwhile, it said, 'onlookers believe him to be unconscious and insensitive to any pain.'"

I dunno. That's pretty cruel, imo.


people are supposed to be presious ( sp? ) and valuble yet when some one takes another ' valuable , presious ' life hes able to live.. there for get away with it.
People are precious? Exactly. So why should it be legal to execute people? Just because they are fucked up in the head? It's human life. I don't condone their crimes by any means, but I find it extremely hypocritical to say, "Killing people is wrong! But, you're going to be executed anyway!"





If prison doesn't serve any type of punishment on its own, why is it acceptable punishment for lesser crimes? it isnt. well i dont think so. if prison laws/ rules hardend up maby it would. but its soft and pansy at the moment. which is why criminals cant seem to get out of that state of mind and way of living. through tougher prisons and rehab before they are released i would hope would make a difference. tougher prisions would ;ay out strict rules and should inforce obedience, rehab should set them up for a better life when they are released.

I guess it would depend on which prison, since the conditions differ. If serving time in prison doesn't qualify as suitable punishment for lesser crimes, what do you think would?


well thats the thing i dont like, the risk of killing an inoccent person. there would need to be extremely solid evidence of the murder. but even still it will happen. we have better technology nowdays but i dont think thats a risk that will ever be taken away.

This chance alone is enough for me to oppose the death penalty. You are right in saying the chance will always be there. Often times the ones who are sentenced to death are the ones who can't afford to represent themselves as well as others in court. I don't really find this fair.


but then that is 10 guilty people gone from this world forever.

Is it worth it if one innocent person is executed in the process?

[tf_arl_90]

Off topic but I've been quoting you as horsey girl not horsey gal. Whoops. Sorry about that.

[horsey gal]

Off topic but I've been quoting you as horsey girl not horsey gal. Whoops. Sorry about that.

lol , sweet as, i honselty didnt even notice until you said :D



Quote: (Originally Posted by horsey gal)
lol damn. well ok yea, technically it is about revenge and murder i guess. more so revenge than closure too proberly.

So we both agree it's about revenge. I feel that revenge should play no part in the justice system.


in a sence yes its about revenge. yea it shouldnt really be a part of it , especially if the one on death row was convicted of murder.. because he was getting revenge on someone, because its like saying the murder he did wasnt justafied but the killing of him is. in the end revenge becomes kind like war...never ending one will kill, some will get revenge for that person, then someone will get revenge on that person and so on...... i wish there was another perpose but yea basicly it is revenge......avenging the inoccent persons death.


Again, there is always conflict in prisons. It's inevitable. I don't think executing people just because they cause trouble is solving anything. I think perhaps we should focus on improving conditions within prisons to reduce this.

well conflict is any were, just like a girl scouts dorm room , lol. the only difference is that prision conflict involves serious criminals , many capable of killing or injuring another person . how do you perpose conditions are improved ? its not as simple as setting up rules or somthing. real disapline is needed, even if it isnt in a way of physical forse. things like negative reinforcement and positave reinforsement maby?


I can understand you believing that when it is administered properly. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/26/opinion/26weds1.html?ex=1303704000&en=de93fd90874fdae9&ei= 5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/26/opinion/26weds1.html?ex=1303704000&en=de93fd90874fdae9&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)
^^ Check this out. If you don't feel like reading it, this more or less sums it up: "In a 'friend of the court' brief, Physicians for Human Rights warned that if the chemicals weren't used correctly, they could 'cause an inmate to suffocate, while consciously experiencing the blinding pain of' a coronary arrest. Meanwhile, it said, 'onlookers believe him to be unconscious and insensitive to any pain.'"

I dunno. That's pretty cruel, imo.

yea it sounds awfull. but that is only if it is done wrong.

damne i have to go. when i get back i will finnish off replying. :)

[Will]

People who believe in capital punishment should be shot.

[horsey gal]

ok were was i......


People are precious? Exactly. So why should it be legal to execute people? Just because they are fucked up in the head? It's human life. I don't condone their crimes by any means, but I find it extremely hypocritical to say, "Killing people is wrong! But, you're going to be executed anyway!"

ok so we are sure people are presious, but then why is a loss cause... nusance...offender.... aloud to keep living when all they do is bad. its unessisary to keep them alive, they are doing no good. and if they arnt willing to change then even more so . if they are so fucked in the head they cant change there criminal ways, even after help, then they are just a hazard and other people shouldnt be in danger because some loony offender is conciderd a human there for being presious.
i see nothing prescious and worth keeping in a violent dangerous person, especially one who will willfully hurt someone else out of spite.
i see what you are saying about it being hipocritical, but even so the person being put to death is in that situation because of the repeated criminal behaviour , violence or whatever, clearly they show no mercy for the so called presious human life, there intentions for murder or there offence could have been for as small a reason as they were in a rival gang or disrespected someone or other things...like revenge, but for the person/people putting the criminal to death its a deffinite way of ensuring that person can never hurt another, and yes revenge is proberly in there too, but so is the need to protect many other innocent lives from this destructive person who doesnt want to be helped.


I guess it would depend on which prison, since the conditions differ. If serving time in prison doesn't qualify as suitable punishment for lesser crimes, what do you think would?

hmmmmm well i think lesser crimes need to be taken more seriously as they can easily exilate to bigger crimes. i wasnt so much saying prison time did nothing, but more how prisions are run now, it does nothing in way of punishment anymore. they wonder why prisions are so crowded nowdays, more criminals are caught but it doesnt matter as they dont see going there as a threat, so even getting caught isnt really a threat either. more and more commit crimes because they dont care for the punishment or consequences, it has no effect on there behaviour.

in saying that i think thats proberly were things need to start. there behaviour that is getting them where they are. much like a rehab type of thing. when looking at problem horses i tend to look back at a horses natural instincts as if in the wild which helps find out the cause of the problem so it can be dealt with, proberly not as easy to do with a person tho. but if you sum up the persons natural instincts eg: fear, anger, pleasure...... compare it to the crime, consult with the criminal about what they have done , to get there perspective ( somthing you cant do with a horse ;) ) , then with all that info determine what the actual cause of the behaviour was or action was. comparing there behaviour now as to what it idealy should be like will give an indication on how badly the person is effected by there crime pattern. then the criminal will have to be consulted with and in some words ' trained ' out of that way of thinking. once the cause is known the cure is not so hard to get going.

for an example: a man robs somewere. he has a family , low income, is seemingly very normal and friendly otherwise. doesnt missbehave in prision and obides by the rules. that doesnt mean let him go as he seems better, because nothing would have changed. finding the natural instinct. greed? desperation? thrill seeking? fear from peer presure ? , in this case we will say its desperation, because he has low income he needs more money for his family. his perspective, he needed more money to suport his family , having a low income job somewhat appearing less atractible on the cv he couldnt get another higher paying job, resulting in desperate measures for more money. in way of training, he would be guided through a system of jobs he could apply for that are applicable to him and his capabilities, he would be educated about places he can go to for help in future, he will be taught about the price of theft and were it will undoubtibly lead him ( in my case death penalty ), he will be talked to on his level, so it doesnt seem like he is being pesterd and looked down apon. even help for somthing like goal setting. and i believe a paper or form stating that he has been through this and makes him alligable for job aplications so he doesnt get turned away for going to prision.

of course this being for minor crimes, and only being a short example.
weather its like that already im not so sure, it shure wouldnt seem like it. but even going through that and they still go on and comit crimes off they go! as they were given a solid chance to improve.

hope that made sence :hmmm:


Often times the ones who are sentenced to death are the ones who can't afford to represent themselves as well as others in court. I don't really find this fair.

maby, but they were the ones that did the crime. it wouldnt be a problem if they got sentenced to jail but it is if they are put to death. ok yea there is a difference, but not so much if it is a life sentance.


Is it worth it if one innocent person is executed in the process?

argg ummm i dont want to say yes but it would mean getting rid of 9 other proved criminals. its tricky for me to answer , altho i like the thought of getting rid of all those criminals i feel bad for even thinkning an innocent person would be put to death because of it. i dont no if i can give you a straight out answer. :o

[tf_arl_90]

People who believe in capital punishment should be shot. .....hah.


lol , sweet as, i honselty didnt even notice until you said :D heh well I will certainly remember now!


yea it sounds awfull. but that is only if it is done wrong. Yes, that's true. I wish I had a statistic on just how many lethal injections were administered incorrectly. Either way, just one mistake is disgusting enough, imo. blech.


ok so we are sure people are presious, but then why is a loss cause... nusance...offender.... aloud to keep living when all they do is bad. its unessisary to keep them alive, they are doing no good. and if they arnt willing to change then even more so . if they are so fucked in the head they cant change there criminal ways, even after help, then they are just a hazard and other people shouldnt be in danger because some loony offender is conciderd a human there for being presious.
i see nothing prescious and worth keeping in a violent dangerous person, especially one who will willfully hurt someone else out of spite.
i see what you are saying about it being hipocritical, but even so the person being put to death is in that situation because of the repeated criminal behaviour , violence or whatever, clearly they show no mercy for the so called presious human life, there intentions for murder or there offence could have been for as small a reason as they were in a rival gang or disrespected someone or other things...like revenge, but for the person/people putting the criminal to death its a deffinite way of ensuring that person can never hurt another, and yes revenge is proberly in there too, but so is the need to protect many other innocent lives from this destructive person who doesnt want to be helped.
Yes, executing a person is a definite way of ensuring that they do not commit any further crimes.

But you are assuming that this person is 100% guilty of the crime. You are also assuming that, if he is allowed to live, he will not benefit at all from rehabilitation. You are also assuming that he will definitely hurt another person while in prison or if/when he gets out.

This is not definite.

I guess what I'm basically getting to is this. You might believe they deserve to die. But do you believe anyone has the right to kill?

I don't.

If there is a problem within the prisons (which we both agree there is), well, then fix it. I don't believe that can be used as an excuse to kill.