London Bombings

[Boy_Wonder06]

Well tomorrow is the first official rememberence day for the London Bombings, its exactly a year since that man was shot down in the underground station, a year since a double decker bus was targeted and bombed, and a year since innocent people were killed by terrorists who just wanted to make a name for themselves.

I really don't see what the point was, how low can some people get, i mean its not like they even targeted anyone important, i mean surely if they targeted somewhere near the houses of parliament or somthing like that, then it could possibly effect big named people, i mean hey the off chance some of the major MP's could have been killed or something.

:angered: SILLY BLOODY TERRORISTS! :angered:

[~Wayne~]

Whoa, doesn't seem like a year

[clueless]

You're right, Wayne. Time flies.

I can't even begin to comprehend how people who lost their loved ones must be feeling. I can't understand how an individual can be indoctrinated so much or/and have so much hate that they are willing to claim fellow human being's life.

[~Wayne~]

I remember it plainly yet it seems to far away, cowardly bastards they was.

[Tim]

i can't believe its nearly been a year already. i remember waking up that day and turning on the tv and seeing it.

[Boy_Wonder06]

i was workin that day, the girl i worked with, her sister was caught in one of the bombings, and only just survived, terrorists are jerks!

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

i spose if they do it on innocent civilions it will be more effective then to somebody important because really thats just a few people whereas blowing up transport at rush hour is going to kill more

[Tami]

i acnt believe so many people have lost thier ives due to terrorists in such a short ammont of time, wht cant the worlds "leaders" come to a descision and end all terrorism and war, i mean come on whats the point? its simply a few countrys trying to prove there better by killing innocent civillians, its so sad how in a short ammount of time there has been so many people greeing over loved and lost ones. george bush promised to hunt down otsama bin laden (cant spell) after 9/11 and that never happend now the man that is responsable for these tragedys is walking free and propably doesnt een care about what he has done and probably contine planning terrorist attacks untill the day he dies,

xxx

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

really they can't pull out of Iraq because if they do it will mean Iraqi people who are still loyal to saddam it would make it easier to plan more attacks

there will never be a time when their isn't war going on its one of those things which can't be stopped. Same with terrorism their will always be people planning to do these things they could be anywhere doing it in any country

[Tami]

George Bush Should Never Have Gone In To Iraqi In The First Place And If There Was No Religion There Would Be No War!!

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

if geogre bush hadn't have gone to war can you imagine how many other lives would have been lost in the USA and UK think about that

he had no choice really

[Tami]

he had every choich, and more lives have been lost because of that war then there would have been wihout it

if there was need for war why did they have to make up evidence to justify it

GEORGE BUSH IS A COLD BLOODED MURDERER

[CraigYohn!]

George Bush Should Never Have Gone In To Iraqi In The First Place And If There Was No Religion There Would Be No War!!

What about the rest? there was no war in Iraq, but 9/11?

George Bush going to war has got nothing to do with the UK getting targeted, we've been targeted long before then.

I like the idea of conspiracys, loose change being a prime example, it deffenatley opens up speculation on whos doing what, why and when.

[CraigYohn!]

if geogre bush hadn't have gone to war can you imagine how many other lives would have been lost in the USA and UK think about that

he had no choice really

:agree:

[Tami]

i never actualy sed there was any connection between the two!!

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

they had no choice more people would have died if they hadn't

i don't like geogre bush but i agree with him going to war with Iraq, Iraq would have been still under saddam's rulership and his people were suffering

[Tami]

he had every choicer in the world!!

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

either way people are gonna die

this way in the long run less people will die in the future saddam was treating his people terribley

[Tami]

im counting the days till he isnt presedent

[CraigYohn!]

You cant reason with a person when the US trys to take your soil, so they went to war, it didnt work out, UN jumped in....good few years down the line, we're back at square one

[Tami]

989 Days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tami]

THE IRAQI WAR WAS ABOUT OIL, NOTHING ELSE BUT OIL


bush

[Tami]

bush wouldnt have looked twice if there was no oil

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

how can you even say that?!

i knew it would come down to oil at some point

geogre bush had no choice face it if he hadn't have gone to war more attacks would have taken place and he got rid of saddam their was no other way of getting rid of him without war

dont get me wrong i don't believe war is a good thing but in this case it was needed

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

Do you really think he was going to ignore attacks?!

[CraigYohn!]

aaaargh, edit button, EDIIIT BUUUTTTOOOOON!

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

ok.... that was random

[Chris]

The Iraq war may have been all about oil, but look on the bright side, they got rid of Saddam by invading, and this is a VERY good thing. Like Blacklollysrule said, he treated his people terribly, and he could also have had weapons of mass destruction, the fact that he didn't in the end shouldn't really come into it, we thought he might have, and would you really like to have taken the chance that he did and consequently detonated a WMD as a terrorist attack? It was more than worth the risk of invading in my opinion.

[gprime]

Source: AP by way of Jihad Watch


LONDON - One of the suicide bombers who struck London's transit system a year ago said in a video broadcast Thursday that the attacks were "only the beginning."
The video, broadcast by Al-Jazeera, showed Shehzad Tanweer delivering the warning shortly before the July 7, 2005, attacks that killed 52 people and the four bombers.
"What you have witnessed now is only the beginning," Tanweer said in the video.
Tanweer, 22, killed six people and himself aboard a London Underground train.
Ahmed al-Sheikh, an editor at Al-Jazeera in Doha, Qatar, would not say how or when the Arab broadcaster obtained the video. He said it was a long tape, and the station had shown only a small portion of it.
Andy Hayman, head of Specialist Operations for the Metropolitan Police, said the video would become part of the continuing investigation of the bombings.
"There can be no doubt that the release of the video at this time can only cause maximum hurt and distress to the families and friends of those who died on 7/7 and the hundreds of people who were injured in the terrorist attacks," Hayman said.
Prime Minister Tony Blair's office said it had no immediate comment on the video.
In September, Al-Jazeera played a video from another of the four bombers, Mohammad Sidique Khan.
In that video, Khan claimed that the British public were to blame for the terror attacks because of their support for Western governments which "continuously perpetuate atrocities" against the Islamic world.
"We are at war and I am a soldier," Khan had said.
Khan's farewell message had been broadcast alongside a video of al-Qaida's No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri, warning of more attacks. They did not appear together on the recording, but analysts said it provided the strongest link yet between the terrorist network and the four London bombers.
Peter Clarke, who heads the anti-terrorist branch of the Metropolitan Police, said he believed Khan had probably recorded his so-called living will outside of Britain.
"The splicing of the footage with the comments of al-Zawahri and the release through the usual al-Qaida channels suggests it may well have been recorded overseas," Clarke said.
Clarke also confirmed that both Tanweer and Khan had made at least three trips to Pakistan before the bombings, making a final visit in early 2005.

[~Wayne~]

This may sound cruel but if Bush hadn't have gone in people from over here could have died, as I know nobody in Iraq I don't really care how many people have to die there

[God.]

This may sound cruel but if Bush hadn't have gone in people from over here could have died, as I know nobody in Iraq I don't really care how many people have to die there

Yeah it does sound cruel, and it's a really bad thing to say.

Every death is met with grief and sorrow from their family and friends....

Did you know any of the people that died in the Londong bombings? Would I be right in assuming you did care that it happened?

[Tami]

and he could also have had weapons of mass destruction, the . he could of had them he didnt so there was no need to go to war!!!

[CraigYohn!]

he could of had them he didnt so there was no need to go to war!!!


*cough* hidden in Iran *cough*

[Tim]

i agree we chris. saddam could hav weapons of mass destruction and i believe that it was a risk i wouldn't hav taken if i were in charge. i think bush and his administration saw this war not just because of the 9/11 incident but also for oil.

[Chris]

he could of had them he didnt so there was no need to go to war!!!

Of course there frigging was! Saddam was a malicious dictator who treated his people like shite, have you seen those mass graves in Iraq on the TV? He killed his own people and threw their bodies in a fucking pit to rot. You would have this 'person' still in power would you?

Its not all about oil.

If our troops pulled out of Iraq now there would be civil war and Iraq would be in even worse condition than it is right now. At least while our troops are there they can attempt to control these bombings that are taking place in the country. These 'insurgents' obviously dont even give a shit about their own people considering they bomb them in their own country, so just imagine the chaos there would be if the troops left...

[~Wayne~]

Yeah I cared Callum but what I'm trying to say is obviously I'd prefer people I know to be safer than ones I dont

[God.]

Aaah, then I assume you worded it wrongly. :)

[~Wayne~]

Yeah, only woke up at that time xD

[God.]

Lol, I'll let you off this once...and only because Alice is going to beat you up soon, if you carry on your hot streak. :D

[clueless]

The whole 'Saddam has weapons of mass destruction' was just a convieniant excuse to get into oil-rich Iraq and create an American hold in Iraq. Toppling Saddam who was resistant to American domination was just an added bonus. Bush used the Media to install fear in the hearts and minds of American's by giving them impression that they would be attacked any second. (The 45 minute claim.) It is natural for people to do everything and anything they can to protect themselves, thus playing into the hands of the Bush Administration easily and supporting the war in Iraq.

Granted, Saddam was a nasty piece of work who terrorised his own people. Iraq is definately better without a dictator heading it, but the place is still in chaos months after the war being declared over. I guess the general public expect/trust the government they elected in, to act in their best interests. Not to be lied to or to be taken advantage of. America and her allies should never have invaded Iraq.

Having said all that, back on topic, the UK is not a war-zone and the terrorists who murdered 52 people last year we're totally wrong.

[KathyN]

George Bush Should Never Have Gone In To Iraqi In The First Place And If There Was No Religion There Would Be No War!!

Great thoughts! I agree with that somehow....

"Imagine there's no Heaven,
It's easy if you try.
No hell below us,
Above us only sky.

Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries,
It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for,
And no religion too.

Imagine all the people
Living life in peace.

You may say that I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one.
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one.

Imagine no possessions,
I wonder if you can.
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man.

Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world..."
(Imagine, John Lennon, The beatles)

I think that any religion is a good thing until it becomes FANATISM. Fanatics are always act the same, if you don't love my team (or don't believe in my beliefs) you are my enemy and have to suffer.

[KathyN]

THE IRAQI WAR WAS ABOUT OIL, NOTHING ELSE BUT OIL


Agree. It was about oil. I will not say Bush or America, because other countries where involved too, but I WILL say that the interessants just used the rumours about nuclear terrorist attacks to get the oil. The REAL "America against the terror" war was Afghanistan and didn't change nothing, Al-kaida is still strong enough to rule the terrorist world.

[KathyN]

The Iraq war may have been all about oil, but look on the bright side, they got rid of Saddam by invading, and this is a VERY good thing. Like Blacklollysrule said, he treated his people terribly, and he could also have had weapons of mass destruction, the fact that he didn't in the end shouldn't really come into it, we thought he might have, and would you really like to have taken the chance that he did and consequently detonated a WMD as a terrorist attack? It was more than worth the risk of invading in my opinion.

I'm not sure about those weapons, but catching Saddam was very important.

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

he could of had them he didnt so there was no need to go to war!!!

they couldn't take the chance

[KathyN]

Terror is the world wide problem, and all the world have to fight against it, and not just crying over people. I respect those people that where killed or hurt by the terrorists, but I want to say that it will always be that way (Terrorist attacks) unless all the world will gather against it and take control over Chechnya in Russia, Iran, Korea and Gaza in Asia and try to do something in different areas in Africa.

I live in a country where terror is part of the everyday life and we always hear about other successful or not-successful terrorist attack on towns and cities here.

Back to the topic...

It's really hard to believe that it was a year ago. Let's remember that tragedy.
Terrorists just have no thing like morality and conscience, though it's not worth saying it was right or wrong...

SO SAD!!!

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

i can't believe its a year aswell i was at school when i found out it was just before i left school to do work experience

[Pearson]

Cant put into words the sheer hatred I have for these fucking terrorists. They're scum. That is all. And I say take no precausions, The London police got critised for shooting the brazilian, and destroying that asian lads house and beating him up. Well to be honest, thats how they should be, not pussyfooting around waiting for someone to do something before they arrest them. If they suspect someone of doing something, take them away then and there, ok the shooting was daft and shouldnt have been done but shits going to happen. These terrorists will hopefully burn in hell.

[gprime]

*cough* hidden in Iran *cough*

I believe you meant Syria, since that would be both the only logical assumption countrywise, and because its the standard opinion in the politosphere.

[gprime]

I think the biggest issue with the London bombing is that it failed to impact the perception of the masses on Islam and Islamic terrorism. It should have given you folks a glimpse of what Israel endures on a constant basis, leading Blair to become more sympathetic to Israel, and cease his unfounded support for the Palestinian terrorists. But it didn't, meaning the one possible benifit of the incident never came to fruition.

[KathyN]

These terrorists will hopefully burn in hell.
The point is that they believe the opposite and doing this not for their god or land, but for 70 virgin Guries (I don't know how to write it...) who wait for them in heaven.

[KathyN]

I believe you meant Syria, since that would be both the only logical assumption countrywise, and because its the standard opinion in the politosphere.
Syria do have the nuclear weapons and they don't even deny this fact.

[KathyN]

I think the biggest issue with the London bombing is that it failed to impact the perception of the masses on Islam and Islamic terrorism. It should have given you folks a glimpse of what Israel endures on a constant basis, leading Blair to become more sympathetic to Israel, and cease his unfounded support for the Palestinian terrorists. But it didn't, meaning the one possible benifit of the incident never came to fruition.

Your right, but terorism have nothing to do with the real Islam religion, real Muslims are against any terorism.

[Chris]

The London police got critised for shooting the brazilian

You've got to ask yourself though, if he was so innocent why was he running from the police? If the police hadn't shot him and he was carrying a bomb which subsequently detonated then the police would have been penalized for not using the neccasary force, they just cant fucking win...

Also, apparenty there are two ways of interpreting the Qu'ran (the Islamic Holy Book), the literal way and the metaphorical way. The terrorist choose to believe the one that tells them to 'kill' the unbelievers of Islam (i think this is the metaphorical way, wherby they interpret the book as they choose), while the other tells them to 'understand' and 'try to convert' theses unbelievers (i'm not sure if this is all correct, but i've heard something similar to this before). True Muslims are against Terrorism like KathyN says, and obviously, we cannot hold an entire religion responsible for a few misguided c*nts who believe they must blow every other religion to hell.

[clueless]

I think the biggest issue with the London bombing is that it failed to impact the perception of the masses on Islam and Islamic terrorism. It should have given you folks a glimpse of what Israel endures on a constant basis, leading Blair to become more sympathetic to Israel, and cease his unfounded support for the Palestinian terrorists. But it didn't, meaning the one possible benifit of the incident never came to fruition.
There is no such thing as Islamic terrorism, as that would imply that Islam preaches terrorism, something which it does not.

I'll finish answering this post later on.I have to go right now.

[KathyN]

There is no such thing as Islamic terrorism, as that would imply that Islam preaches terrorism, something which it does not.

I'll finish answering this post later on.I have to go right now.
You are SOOOO right!!!

[Luke]

The terrorists believe Allah will give them eternity in paradise if they commit themselves for Jihad (holy war).

We'll never back down to terrorism though. We are GREAT BRITAIN.

[Tami]

I Agree

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

yes me too ^

[♥PrincessAlice♥]

anybody watch the news program about it earlier just before 6pm

[Lambo]

If There Was No Religion There Would Be No War!!

Is that a joke? Wars are fought primarily over land and resources. Most people just use religion as an excuse.

[KathyN]

Are you talking about nowadays?

[clueless]

The terrorists believe Allah will give them eternity in paradise if they commit themselves for Jihad (holy war).
It isn't Jihad, though. So it isn't Islamic terrorism as Islam fully condemns terrorism.



It should have given you folks a glimpse of what Israel endures on a constant basis, leading Blair to become more sympathetic to Israel, and cease his unfounded support for the Palestinian terrorists.
Imagine trying to go about your day to day activities like any other person can in the world in relative harmony, whilst having to constantly being afraid when the phone rings or turning on the TV/radio that you shall be faced with the death of another innocent family. Imagine being afraid even in your own home, a place where you should be able to feel safe, will soon be bombarded with heavy artillay whilst you sleep by the Israeli army who believe it is perfectly alright to destruct an entire village on the 'suspicion' that there is a 'terrorist' residing there. Imagine having to look over your shoulder every second of your life. Imagine having to stand by and watching your homes being bulldozed to the ground after only been given a couple of minutes prior warning and if you don't step away you go down to. If you wouldn't call that terrorism i don't know what you would! That is terrorism but because it has been sugar-coated not many people like to talk about it and condone Israel. If anybody deserved sympathy, it would be the Palestinians.

[KathyN]

Imagine trying to go about your day to day activities like any other person can in the world in relative harmony, whilst having to constantly being afraid when the phone rings or turning on the TV/radio that you shall be faced with the death of another innocent family. Imagine being afraid even in your own home, a place where you should be able to feel safe, will soon be bombarded with heavy artillay whilst you sleep by the Israeli army who believe it is perfectly alright to destruct an entire village on the 'suspicion' that there is a 'terrorist' residing there. Imagine having to look over your shoulder every second of your life. Imagine having to stand by and watching your homes being bulldozed to the ground after only been given a couple of minutes prior warning and if you don't step away you go down to. If you wouldn't call that terrorism i don't know what you would! That is terrorism but because it has been sugar-coated not many people like to talk about it and condone Israel. If anybody deserved sympathy, it would be the Palestinians.
You have a little misunderstanding here. The Israeli army tries so hard not to harm innocent people. The bulldozed houses are the houses of the terrorists, and believe me, their family can afford buying or building new one as they are given some nice amount of cash for losing they beloved son in the Jihad (what they call Jihad).
The Palestinians are hostile towards Israel in all the aspects, they are all supporting terrorism (at least as "fans" if not all fanatics), so there are no completely innocent people there.

[Pearson]

This isnt the first attack...

Bin Laden got us with foot and mouth, it was hislamb that coursed it.

Yes, old joke im sorry and there was probably no need for it here...

anyways back to the point in matter. They released a tape saying this is the one of many, is that the one of many in England or to the world?

[KathyN]

anyways back to the point in matter. They released a tape saying this is the one of many, is that the one of many in England or to the world?
It doesn't really matters, the fact is that they are planing to attack more...

[Pearson]

It doesn't really matters, the fact is that they are planing to attack more...

Well it does matter. Because if there bombing England more they might bomb Sheffield, if there bombing the world more they probably wont waste there time on Sheffield. Iv got to take my precausions, Im avoiding meadowhall and stuff from now on.

[KathyN]

Well it does matter. Because if there bombing England more they might bomb Sheffield, if there bombing the world more they probably wont waste there time on Sheffield. Iv got to take my precausions, Im avoiding meadowhall and stuff from now on.Oh man, can't you be less selfish for once?!

[Luke]

He's joking FFS!

[KathyN]

He's joking FFS!It's not funny.

[Chris]

Well it does matter. Because if there bombing England more they might bomb Sheffield, if there bombing the world more they probably wont waste there time on Sheffield. Iv got to take my precausions, Im avoiding meadowhall and stuff from now on.

I remember last year (just after 7/7), i was going into Sheffield town centre, and there was an bomb alert. Someone left a 'suspect' package outside a shop, it was all over the newspapers and everything. They were advising people to stay away from the town centre as i was on the tram heading in.

You are right to worry about Meadowhall though, my mum wont even go near the place when it gets near Christmas because she thinks its going to get attacked (extreme i know...).

[God.]

Lol, my mum's exactly that same! and I'm 20!

[Pearson]

I remember last year (just after 7/7), i was going into Sheffield town centre, and there was an bomb alert. Someone left a 'suspect' package outside a shop, it was all over the newspapers and everything. They were advising people to stay away from the town centre as i was on the tram heading in.

You are right to worry about Meadowhall though, my mum wont even go near the place when it gets near Christmas because she thinks its going to get attacked (extreme i know...).

I wont go near Meadowhall at Christmas aswell, Its like a sardine can full of chavs, old people and people that cough alot.

[Chris]

Its like a sardine can full of chavs

hmmm, maybe Meadowhall blowing up isn't such a bad thing after all, lol (joking obviously).

[Luke]

HAHAHAHAHAHA what a fucking joke lmao!!

[kieron y]

Sorry this is off topic but this insulted me quite a bit



The Palestinians are hostile towards Israel in all the aspects, they are all supporting terrorism (at least as "fans" if not all fanatics), so there are no completely innocent people there.

So Basically are you saying that all Palestianian's are terrorists. I strongly with everything i beleive in disagree. My father is Palestinian. I have visited Palestine (i never call it Israel, it is not its proper name thankyou) on many occasions. On every occasion i have been terrorised in one way or another by ISRAELI army troops. I have personally tried to pass the Gaza Strip and have been molestered and attacked by the army for no reason what so ever, all because I was English.

So how can you possibly say that all Palestinian's support terrorism, as they fear for their lives only to be harrased by the Israeli army for no reason??

[clueless]

You have a little misunderstanding here. The Israeli army tries so hard not to harm innocent people. The bulldozed houses are the houses of the terrorists, and believe me, their family can afford buying or building new one as they are given some nice amount of cash for losing they beloved son in the Jihad (what they call Jihad).
Oh, i see. The King David Massacre, 1946 ring any bells? How about Baldat Al-Shaikh Massacre, 1947? The Tantura Massacre, 1948, maybe?Houla Massacre, 1948,no?Deir Yassin Massacre, 1948 was cold blooded murder too. Kafr Qasem Massacre, 1956, a legit target? How about the murders committed during the Khan Yunis Massacre, 1956? Not to mention the infamous Massacre of Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps in '82. How about the million restrictions put in place for palestinians trying to earn a living or get medical attention? The children being held at gun point at checkpoints? No, the Israeli army and zionist state of Israel tries not to harm innocent people at all, do they? It seems as though a family can no longer even sit on a beach and enjoy themselves without being killed.


The Palestinians are hostile towards Israel in all the aspects, they are all supporting terrorism (at least as "fans" if not all fanatics), so there are no completely innocent people there.
The Palestinians are hostile because they have been forced out of their homes and onto the streets. Their movements are restricted. No thought is given to their feelings. Their land is robbed and ransacked, and you expect them to open up their arms to the Israeli state? But when they do retaliate they are called 'terrorists.' I am not a supporter of the real terrorism which the Israeli army unleash on Palestinian civilians every single day. Does that make me a terrorist, too? I suppose one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I've heard the Israeli's are now considering using napalm against the Palestinians now. How civilised. I'm sure they don't want to hurt anyone innocent, but we all know what napalm can do.

[kieron y]

You are truly educated in this tpoic of discussion :) I'm impressed. I must say.

And i totally 100% agree with you. I'm behind you in this debate :)


P.S. may I post my site on here? It's about the Palestinians and for the Palestinian's, for anyone who is interested? Just asking, thankyou.

[clueless]

You are truly educated in this tpoic of discussion :) I'm impressed. I must say.

And i totally 100% agree with you. I'm behind you in this debate :)

P.S. may I post my site on here? It's about the Palestinians and for the Palestinian's, for anyone who is interested? Just asking, thankyou.
Thanks Kieron. I take a special interest on the Middle East, especially the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Post up your site. (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm)

[kieron y]

Honistly, you have impressed me with you knowlegde.

By the way, this is my website. its mostly writing and information so i apologise if you find no interest in it (STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION):
http://www.palestine.co.uk/

P.S. feel free to email your veiws on the topic. But (if you ever will) do not write to the address as i do not live there no more, it is my little sisters address. Thankyou :)

[KathyN]

So, Clueless, what you say here is that the Palestinians are innocent people that the Israeli government and army just trying to kill and cause another genaside?

[clueless]

So, Clueless, what you say here is that the Palestinians are innocent people that the Israeli government and army just trying to kill and cause another genaside?
Palestinians are persecuted people, but this doesn't go to say that all are innocent. I totally condemn those who deliberately target civilians, regardless of which side they are on. The Israeli government is Zionist. Zionism is a disease which is making the Middle East very sick, indeed. So yes, i do think that the Israeli government and army are evil who do not value human life.

[KathyN]

Palestinians are persecuted people, but this doesn't go to say that all are innocent. I totally condemn those who deliberately target civilians, regardless of which side they are on. The Israeli government is Zionist. Zionism is a disease which is making the Middle East very sick, indeed. So yes, i do think that the Israeli government and army are evil who do not value human life. You got a point... I'm not completely support it but it's a good point.

[x.Sean.x]

I remember it plainly yet it seems to far away, cowardly bastards they was.

:agree: cowardly b*****ds indeed. i dont live there but i heard about it in the USA man that sucks.

[gprime]

Syria do have the nuclear weapons and they don't even deny this fact.

All current evidence suggests they currently have only chemical and biological weaponry.


Your right, but terorism have nothing to do with the real Islam religion, real Muslims are against any terorism.

Then I guess you don't know very much about Islam. After having read the Rubyat, the Koran, th Hadith, and having seen countless speeches from Islamic leaders, and looking at Islamic history, it should become painfully clear that it is a religion of violence and terror.


There is no such thing as Islamic terrorism, as that would imply that Islam preaches terrorism, something which it does not.

I'll finish answering this post later on.I have to go right now.

Two important points. The first is that terrorism done in the name of Islam is exactly Islamic terrorism. And the second is that the entire religion is founded on violence and terrorism, so it not only sanctions it, but is driven by it.


It isn't Jihad, though. So it isn't Islamic terrorism as Islam fully condemns terrorism.


Imagine trying to go about your day to day activities like any other person can in the world in relative harmony, whilst having to constantly being afraid when the phone rings or turning on the TV/radio that you shall be faced with the death of another innocent family. Imagine being afraid even in your own home, a place where you should be able to feel safe, will soon be bombarded with heavy artillay whilst you sleep by the Israeli army who believe it is perfectly alright to destruct an entire village on the 'suspicion' that there is a 'terrorist' residing there. Imagine having to look over your shoulder every second of your life. Imagine having to stand by and watching your homes being bulldozed to the ground after only been given a couple of minutes prior warning and if you don't step away you go down to. If you wouldn't call that terrorism i don't know what you would! That is terrorism but because it has been sugar-coated not many people like to talk about it and condone Israel. If anybody deserved sympathy, it would be the Palestinians.

Terrorism is a form of "violence against the infidels in the name of Allah", and is thus clearly Jihad, which is commanded by Islamic law.

Now, as per your failed attempt to garner sympathy for the Palestinians, I can only conclude that you, like many people in the West, and sadly even in Israel, are a complete moron. You lack a basic grasp of the facts, all of which clearly point to Israel being the victim.


You have a little misunderstanding here. The Israeli army tries so hard not to harm innocent people.

Explain the Amona incident then.

[gprime]

Palestinians are persecuted people, but this doesn't go to say that all are innocent. I totally condemn those who deliberately target civilians, regardless of which side they are on. The Israeli government is Zionist. Zionism is a disease which is making the Middle East very sick, indeed. So yes, i do think that the Israeli government and army are evil who do not value human life.

You are a fucking retard. Zionism is fundamentally the same as patriotism. Being a zionist is no different than being loyal to the United States or the UK. Anti-zionism is thus the same thing as anti-semitism, which would explain your inability to grasp the truth on this topic.

[gprime]

Honistly, you have impressed me with you knowlegde.

By the way, this is my website. its mostly writing and information so i apologise if you find no interest in it (STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION):
http://www.palestine.co.uk/

P.S. feel free to email your veiws on the topic. But (if you ever will) do not write to the address as i do not live there no more, it is my little sisters address. Thankyou :)

If you're looking for inspiration, you may want to check out this site (http://palestine.us/) on that same topic. More developed, contains a plethora of facts, and might shed some useful light for you.

[Tami]

face it if there was no bush there wouldnt be as many deaths

[Chris]

*sigh* You cant blame it ALL on Bush, blaming it on Bush is the sign of someone who doesn't know what they are on about...

Is Bush killing people? No.

[Tami]

well from the second he chose to go to war he killed some one

[Chris]

well from the second he chose to go to war he killed some one

Yes, thats what happens in War, people die, its not Bush's fault. I agree that he went there for the oil, but other positive things did come from the war in Iraq as well, if we hadn't invaded then Saddam would still be in power and killing thousands of people. A Good saying that is totally true is:

"The Needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few"

The "many" are the Iraqi people, while, unfortunately, the "few" are the soldiers.

There have been far fewer Soldiers killed than the ammount of Iraqi's that would have been slaughtered at the hands of Saddams men. Saddam was a psychopathic idiot and needed capturing, in my opinion capturing him was worth the war alone.

[Tami]

i hate george w bush and that will never change. i have my thoughts on the matter and unless i get some seriously disturbing answers im not even gong to thnk about changing my feelinga and thoughts towards this subject. call me waht you want but i have very stong opinions and i stick to them :)

[Chris]

call me waht you want but i have very stong opinions and i stick to them :)

I'm not calling you anything, i'm just making it known that i have a different opinion to you, and we are all entitled to have different opinions, just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean that i have to have the same thoughts and vice-versa.

[Tami]

i never said you wernt enttled to your opinion i never sed u wernt

[clueless]

Then I guess you don't know very much about Islam. After having read the Rubyat, the Koran, th Hadith, and having seen countless speeches from Islamic leaders, and looking at Islamic history, it should become painfully clear that it is a religion of violence and terror.
Now that is bullshit. Islam is not a religion of violence and terror as many people like to jump to the conclusion of after reading a partial verse of the Quran and not seeing the whole thing in context.


Two important points. The first is that terrorism done in the name of Islam is exactly Islamic terrorism. And the second is that the entire religion is founded on violence and terrorism, so it not only sanctions it, but is driven by it.
There's firstly the religion. Then there are the 'followers'. Not all people who claim to be followers of a particular faith actually follow the full teachings of the faith. There is Islam and there are Muslims. A person claiming to be a Muslim, may very well go blow themselves up and a bus load of innocent civilians and let it be known, this is something which Islam condemns. You talk like you know everything about everything-- something which is extremely patronising. Don't tell me what i have to believe in. Islam is NOT a religious which is founded on violence and terrorism. It fully condemns the terrorising of innocent civilians, and nor was it spread by the sword.


Terrorism is a form of "violence against the infidels in the name of Allah", and is thus clearly Jihad, which is commanded by Islamic law.
Jihad is indeed to fight in the faith of God but it physical battlefield Jihad is ONLY permitted when threatened. There are regulations set in place in Islam, outlining all that which is permitted in times of warfare. One of them is the prohibition of deliberately targetting innocent men, women, children or animals REGARDLESS of their faith/background. Innocent people are innocent people. You are grouping together all people who claim to be fighting in the way of God, which is totally wrong of you.


Now, as per your failed attempt to garner sympathy for the Palestinians, I can only conclude that you, like many people in the West, and sadly even in Israel, are a complete moron. You lack a basic grasp of the facts, all of which clearly point to Israel being the victim.
I'm sure Tom Hurndall's family will agree with you, don't you?

[clueless]

You are a f*cking retard. Zionism is fundamentally the same as patriotism. Being a zionist is no different than being loyal to the United States or the UK. Anti-zionism is thus the same thing as anti-semitism, which would explain your inability to grasp the truth on this topic.
Anti-Zionism isn't the same as Anti-Semitism. It is okey to oppose a political movement though it isn't okey to discriminate against a particular faith. Not all Jews are Zionists.

[clueless]

gprime, here is alittle bit of friendly advice for you: get off your high horse. Don't act like you know everything there is to know about a faith you don't even belong to. Oh, and look at the bigger picture and see things in context. Don't pick and choose things to support your arguement.

[KathyN]

Anti-Zionism isn't the same as Anti-Semitism. It is okey to oppose a political movement though it isn't okey to discriminate against a particular faith. Not all Jews are Zionists.Totally agree. But I'm not so pro-Palestinian aether.
I didn't answer your questions because they will lead to an endless argument with you and I don't want it.

[gprime]

As per my comment about Isalm being inherently violent, there's plenty of proof.

From history:

Chronicle of Recent Years (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks)
List of Israeli Victims of Islamic Terrorism (http://lindasog.com/public/terrorvictims.htm) (Mostly complete)

And we all know (so I don't feel compelled to recap) Islam's centuries (and again, we're talking as earlier as in the days of the founding members) of conquest and violent takeover and tyranny. Muhammed himself waged at least 27 battles and "nine encounters" as recorded by Ibn Ishaq.


Excerpts from the Koran:

Well, because there are pretty pathetic character limits per post, I'll just provide some links:

164 Violent Koran Quotes (http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html#Fulltext)
Blessed Cause (http://www.blessedcause.org/Quran.htm)
Flawless Logic (http://www.library.flawlesslogic.com/koran.htm)
Islam Uncensored (http://www.bahai-faith.com/islam-uncensored.html)
Skeptics Annotated Koran (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/QURAN/cruelty/long.html)
TruthDig (http://www.truthdig.com/images/diguploads/verses.html)

But the key to the entire Koran is:

"Do they not consider the Koran with care, If it had been from anyone other than Allah, it would contain many discrepancies (Koran 4:82)."

That means that all commands of violence are to be taken literally and followed.


From the Hadith:

Most of the juicy bits are in Koran or contained on some of the previously and subsequently mentioned links, however there are a some here too (http://peace.heebz.com/apostacy.html).


More Islamic Quotes (http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes.aspx?g=405)
Even more evil Islam quotes (http://members.aol.com/thetruth/donttell.htm)


And generally, I'd suggest reading Islam Undressed (http://www.islamundressed.com) or anything written by Rober Spencer (http://jihadwatch.org/books/) (of JihadWatch (http://jihadwatch.org/)) is worth reading for more info.

[gprime]

gprime, here is alittle bit of friendly advice for you: get off your high horse. Don't act like you know everything there is to know about a faith you don't even belong to. Oh, and look at the bigger picture and see things in context. Don't pick and choose things to support your arguement.

No high horse to get off of. Just because I'm not stupid enough to practice said faith doesn't mean I'm not educated about it. Based on your weak arguements it appears though that you are.

[gprime]

Anti-Zionism isn't the same as Anti-Semitism. It is okey to oppose a political movement though it isn't okey to discriminate against a particular faith. Not all Jews are Zionists.

Not all Jews are Zionists in the same way that not all Americans are patriotic, since the two are one and the same. But Zionism is essentially a term for Israeli patriotism. So anti-Zionism is yet another modern manifestation of anti-Semitism.

===========
Suggested readings:

Anti-semitism and Anti-Zionism by Robert Wistrich (http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-wistrich-f04.htm)
Dennis Prager on Anti-Zionism Being A Form of Anti-Semitism (http://townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2006/05/30/explaining_jews_part_vii:__why_anti-zionism_is_anti-semitism)

===========
And even Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism (http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/ml_king.html).



From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend," Saturday Review_XLVII (Aug. 1967), p. 76.
Reprinted in M.L. King Jr., "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr."

". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.

"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.

"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.

"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.

"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.

This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.

"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.

"The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!

"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share.

Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."

[clueless]

I had to calm myself down before i actually hit the reply button to this post, as some of the claims are really absurd to an educated Muslim like myself.


As per my comment about Isalm being inherently violent, there's plenty of proof.

From history:

Chronicle of Recent Years (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks)
List of Israeli Victims of Islamic Terrorism (http://lindasog.com/public/terrorvictims.htm) (Mostly complete)
I had a quick look through that list and yes, it was acts of terrorism carried out by Muslims who apparently thought they were doing so for the sake of God. As mentioned in a previous posting, targetting of innocent people is strictly forbidden in Islam so therefore their claims of legit Jihad have been forfieted and their slaying of innocent people are actually murders. Islam, on one hand totally condemns this sort of barbaricy whilst so called Muslims condone it. INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE NOT LEGIT TARGETS, EVER, SO YOU CAN NOT SAY ISLAM HAS SANCTIONED SUCH ATTACTS AND THEY ARE FORMS OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM AS ISLAM DOES NOT PREACH THE TERRORISING OF INNOCET PEOPLE.


And we all know (so I don't feel compelled to recap) Islam's centuries (and again, we're talking as earlier as in the days of the founding members) of conquest and violent takeover and tyranny. Muhammed himself waged at least 27 battles and "nine encounters" as recorded by Ibn Ishaq.
You obviously haven't studied Islamic history. If you had and not just lifted inaccurate information off anti-Islamic websites, then you would know that of all the battles and conquests that did take place were in response to initial threat from those against Islam. If you want a breakdown of every single battle which took place in the time of Muhammed, then i can do that for you. And believe you me, i shall put them in context. Just because the Muslims came out victorious in some of the battles, doesn't mean they fought an unjust war and that they were a barbaric force. Islam was not spread by the sword. People were not forced to accept it. If they are forced to accept a faith, this is totally against Islamic law as the God states in the Quran: Let there be no compulsion in faith.



Excerpts from the Koran:

Well, because there are pretty pathetic character limits per post, I'll just provide some links:

164 Violent Koran Quotes (http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html#Fulltext)
Blessed Cause (http://www.blessedcause.org/Quran.htm)
Flawless Logic (http://www.library.flawlesslogic.com/koran.htm)
Islam Uncensored (http://www.bahai-faith.com/islam-uncensored.html)
Skeptics Annotated Koran (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/QURAN/cruelty/long.html)
TruthDig (http://www.truthdig.com/images/diguploads/verses.html)
All taken out of context, my friend. I would laugh if it hadn't been for the fact that people actually take this sort of twisted rubbish(i.e. those flawed websites) seriously.


But the key to the entire Koran is:

"Do they not consider the Koran with care, If it had been from anyone other than Allah, it would contain many discrepancies (Koran 4:82)."

That means that all commands of violence are to be taken literally and followed.
The verse you quoted does not mean that all commands of violence are to be taken literally and followed.

I shall explain why in a couple of hours, when i have the time to log back onto TF. Gotta cut it short here. Rest assured, i shall be addressing each and every point you bring up.

[gprime]

INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE NOT LEGIT TARGETS, EVER, SO YOU CAN NOT SAY ISLAM HAS SANCTIONED SUCH ATTACTS AND THEY ARE FORMS OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM AS ISLAM DOES NOT PREACH THE TERRORISING OF INNOCET PEOPLE.

Well, since the quotes I listed don't seem to make a distinction other than between Muslims and "Infidels", its pretty damn clear that it is sanctioned by Islam.


You obviously haven't studied Islamic history. If you had and not just lifted inaccurate information off anti-Islamic websites, then you would know that of all the battles and conquests that did take place were in response to initial threat from those against Islam. If you want a breakdown of every single battle which took place in the time of Muhammed, then i can do that for you. And believe you me, i shall put them in context. Just because the Muslims came out victorious in some of the battles, doesn't mean they fought an unjust war and that they were a barbaric force. Islam was not spread by the sword. People were not forced to accept it.

Sure, early on there were some minor attacks on Islam. But lets be real about this. They soon became the aggressors.


All taken out of context, my friend. I would laugh if it hadn't been for the fact that people actually take this sort of twisted rubbish(i.e. those flawed websites) seriously.

Sorry, but that is total bullshit. Hundreds of quotes aren't all taken out of context. The fact remains your religion spews venom and is a horrible curse upon the civilized world.


The verse you quoted does not mean that all commands of violence are to be taken literally and followed.

Well, since it says to take the whole Koran literally, that would include all the violence.


I shall explain why in a couple of hours, when i have the time to log back onto TF. Gotta cut it short here. Rest assured, i shall be addressing each and every point you bring up.

If you feel so compelled, though I won't bother to read it, since you are totally detatched from reality, and I don't feel the need to expend more time digesting bullshit from the brainwashed.

[Pearson]

No religion, no war.

I agree with the lad, Islam seems to be a partically violant religion. The link he put up prove this, they treat women and anyone who doesnt believe in Allah as if they are below them.

[Tami]

^^i agee with him^^

[KathyN]

So, I can say that Christianity is a violent religion too... remember the history of the middle-ages? the Christians went on a type of Jihad to take control over the world.

[Pearson]

So, I can say that Christianity is a violent religion too... remember the history of the middle-ages? the Christians went on a type of Jihad to take control over the world.

No, lol, I dont remember the middle ages!

That was the middle ages, to still act like that now is disgusting, Im not saying all Muslims are violant, im saying the religion seems to have a violant element to it which is motivating these terrorists.

[clueless]

But the key to the entire Koran is:

"Do they not consider the Koran with care, If it had been from anyone other than Allah, it would contain many discrepancies (Koran 4:82)."

That means that all commands of violence are to be taken literally and followed.

Ever come across something called 'tafseer'? Well, if you haven't, i'll tell you what it is. It is an explanation of every verse that is in the Quran and the context it was revealed in. I feel that i have to educate all those who are reading this thread so they aren't taken in by the crap you are posting. No Muslim on Earth uses this verse in the context you have used it in. 'They' in this verse, refers to Christians and Jews to whom God sent down guidance and questions them as to why they would reject guidance from God as if the guidance had not come from God then it would contain many discrepancies. Muslims believe that the Quran and Muhammed(last Prophet to man) was sent to complete God's message on Earth which shall be valid till the end of time and there would be no need for any other Prophet's or revelations to be sent.


From the Hadith:
Most of the juicy bits are in Koran or contained on some of the previously and subsequently mentioned links, however there are a some here too (http://peace.heebz.com/apostacy.html).

More Islamic Quotes (http://www.prophetofdoom.net/quotes.aspx?g=405)
Even more evil Islam quotes (http://members.aol.com/thetruth/donttell.htm)
And generally, I'd suggest reading Islam Undressed (http://www.islamundressed.com) or anything written by Rober Spencer (http://jihadwatch.org/books/) (of JihadWatch (http://jihadwatch.org/)) is worth reading for more info.
How convieniant. Stop reading so much crap from uneducated people and actually take in what Muslims believe. Don't tell them what to believe. The way you portray Islam to be makes me turn away from it too and i would have had it not been for the fact that i am educated and know that Islam is not all about violence and terror. Rather the contrary.

[clueless]

Well, since the quotes I listed don't seem to make a distinction other than between Muslims and "Infidels", its pretty damn clear that it is sanctioned by Islam.
Not all infidels(non-Muslims) are legit target. If a non-Muslim is not involved in frontline war then they are not a legit target. Stop generalising so much.


Sure, early on there were some minor attacks on Islam. But lets be real about this. They soon became the aggressors.
Oh, really? Are you talking about during the time of Muhammed, or after?



Sorry, but that is total bullshit. Hundreds of quotes aren't all taken out of context. The fact remains your religion spews venom and is a horrible curse upon the civilized world.
I've had this debate about 'Islam being a religion of terror' many times and i am sometimes truelly shocked that some otherwise intelligent human beings choose to be so ignorant. Your enemies are always going to twist things to make you look bad in every possible way, and this is precisely what you will find in literature published on anti-Islamic websites. And you, instead of asking Muslims what they believe and delving into the history of Islamic scholars and their teachings and explanations of the Quran and Hadith, choose to tell Muslims what their beliefs are. How ridiculous! It is NOT total bullshit. If you want to learn about Islam the way it has filled the lives of millions of people from all backgrounds all over the world, then learn it the proper way. I think it is really stupid to think i shall learn anything about Christianity and what it really stands for if my only source of information of an anti-Christian website.


If you feel so compelled, though I won't bother to read it, since you are totally detatched from reality, and I don't feel the need to expend more time digesting bullshit from the brainwashed.
I'm not really bothered as to whether or not you read what i have written, but others will and if all they see is the crap you are spouting then they shall be walking away with a totally messed up outline of Islam and what it stands for. Just because i disagree with you, doesn't mean i am not living in the same world as you or function any less like a normal, sane human being. I am not totally detatched from reality nor have i been brainwashed. I am constantly examing and demanding answers to new things i learn about my faith as you can never know all there is to know. I do not just take and swallow and then repeat like a parrot. If you think i do, then that's up to you but i know that i do not and that's what matters.

[clueless]

No religion, no war.

I agree with the lad, Islam seems to be a partically violant religion. The link he put up prove this, they treat women and anyone who doesnt believe in Allah as if they are below them.
Islam is not a violent religion. The Quran verses which are usually used to support people who have soemthing against Islam, have been taken out of context. If you want me to explain every single verse you have an issue with, then just ask-- no problem. You will not be getting a full crediable understanding of Islam if you aren't prepared to look things in context and all that is surrounding them. Such anti-Islamic websites do not PROVE anything.

Islam is the religion that gave women equal rights and stopped societies from treating women like dirt. As there is no compulsion in faith, Muslims and non-Muslims also retain the same rights and have a right to be protected when innocent.

Again, don't tell me what to believe in. Ask, and i'll inform you instead. People thesedays think they are experts in everything when in reality they know next to nothing.

[Patriot1776]

While religion is a main cause of war it is also one of the largest havens of peace.

Religion causes war when it gets to entangled with politics.

For example, the Crusades were originally fought to stop the mass genocide that was occuring against the Christians in the Middle East. The genocide did come to an end after the First Crusade.
The next few wars were meant to protect the Christian claims but it eventually reached a point where Europe simply wanted ALL Muslim land. They were little more than land wars with religion as an excuse.

Another example, the Spanish Empire. Spain was at one point controlled by the Muslims after the fall of the Roman Empire.
When Spain became the most powerful nation in the world they started their colonizing of the Americas and the "recovering" (As they called it) of countries such as Grenada, which were under Muslim rule.
In order to do this the Spanish needed to unite the empire under one common enemy, thus the Inquisition began.
Spain also took part in the 30 Years War involving England, France, and Holland. Once again these were little more than land wars with religion as an excuse.

While religion itself has been a cause of war (Germany did enter a "civil war" during the Reformation). As said earlier most "religious wars" are just land wars with religion as an excuse.

Saying that "no religion, no war" is an exaggeration.

Were the Napoleonic Wars fought over religion?
Was WWI fought over religion?
Was WWII fought over religion?

No. Some of the most destructive conflicts in world history did not involve religion at all.

[clueless]

No, lol, I dont remember the middle ages!

That was the middle ages, to still act like that now is disgusting, Im not saying all Muslims are violant, im saying the religion seems to have a violant element to it which is motivating these terrorists.
People shall twist things to support their cause. It has happened in the past, it continues to happen and shall no doubt happen in the future, too. Terrorists will do this too. Take the example of the 7/7 suicide bombers. They were angered with the situation of Muslims in todays world and hated the occupation of Muslim lands. They saw the occupation of Iraq/Afghanistan as occupation of not just land but Muslim land. Islam does indeed permit Muslims to fight, but only when attacked (i.e. fighting an invading army.) People don't listen to anything after the but and are too quick to jump to conclusions such as 'islam is a religion of terror.' Muslims are not been attacked or persecuted in England. Muslims still retain the right to practice their faith. Therefore England was not a legit target and thus these people were indeed terrorists and murderers not freedom fighters and martyrs. Islam condemned their actions. Why continue to blame a faith which deserves no blame? Blame the messed up individuals who twisted things to suit themselves. Islam and Muslims are NOT the same thing.

[gprime]

How convieniant. Stop reading so much crap from uneducated people and actually take in what Muslims believe. Don't tell them what to believe. The way you portray Islam to be makes me turn away from it too and i would have had it not been for the fact that i am educated and know that Islam is not all about violence and terror. Rather the contrary.

But I can't buy into what you people believe, since its insane. I've read most of the relevant texts on my own, and have seen videos of all your psychotic leaders calling for the killing of all Jews. So its not as though I just listen to such sites.


Not all infidels(non-Muslims) are legit target. If a non-Muslim is not involved in frontline war then they are not a legit target. Stop generalising so much.

Well, I only provide sourced text. I can't control the fact that it shows that Islam wants all non-Muslims dead.



I've had this debate about 'Islam being a religion of terror' many times and i am sometimes truelly shocked that some otherwise intelligent human beings choose to be so ignorant. Your enemies are always going to twist things to make you look bad in every possible way, and this is precisely what you will find in literature published on anti-Islamic websites. And you, instead of asking Muslims what they believe and delving into the history of Islamic scholars and their teachings and explanations of the Quran and Hadith, choose to tell Muslims what their beliefs are. How ridiculous! It is NOT total bullshit. If you want to learn about Islam the way it has filled the lives of millions of people from all backgrounds all over the world, then learn it the proper way. I think it is really stupid to think i shall learn anything about Christianity and what it really stands for if my only source of information of an anti-Christian website.

I know Muslims and I've discussed Islam with them. They may not be violent and they may ignore the violence of the religion, but that doesn't change the fact that on the whole, Islam calls for violence.

[clueless]

But I can't buy into what you people believe, since its insane. I've read most of the relevant texts on my own, and have seen videos of all your psychotic leaders calling for the killing of all Jews. So its not as though I just listen to such sites.
Well, they are obviously wrong then. There's alot of things that Muslims go around saying which is at odds with what Islam actually stands for.


Well, I only provide sourced text. I can't control the fact that it shows that Islam wants all non-Muslims dead.
Again, that's bull.


I know Muslims and I've discussed Islam with them. They may not be violent and they may ignore the violence of the religion, but that doesn't change the fact that on the whole, Islam calls for violence.
You are driven by the idea that you are so right that you can't even bare to listen to what Islam actually does stand for. If Islam was a religion of terror, i wouldn't believe in it. And before you say it, no i am not brainwashed. Religion has never been forced on me.

[KathyN]

Look, my mom is working with Muslims, she is a college teacher in an Arabic college, I know many of her students and her colleagues as they talk a lot. Once we were discussing this issue. One of them said that this thing that the Palestinians call JIHAD has nothin to do with the real Jihad, they are not defending their religion, they are just want to take control over more land. Real Muslims can live in any country and have their own community, real Muslims will never be violent towards people who are not violent towards them and\or the name of Allah. The thing that is the most close to the real jihad is what happens in French.
The terrorists Muslim leaders are just changing the meaning of the words written in the Koran and making their own philosophies like Hitler did with the Darwin's theory...

[clueless]

Look, my mom is working with Muslims, she is a college teacher in an Arabic college, I know many of her students and her colleagues as they talk a lot. Once we were discussing this issue. One of them said that this thing that the Palestinians call JIHAD has nothin to do with the real Jihad, they are not defending their religion, they are just want to take control over more land. Real Muslims can live in any country and have their own community, real Muslims will never be violent towards people who are not violent towards them and\or the name of Allah. The thing that is the most close to the real jihad is what happens in French.
The terrorists Muslim leaders are just changing the meaning of the words written in the Koran and making their own philosophies like Hitler did with the Darwin's theory...
Spot on. Thanks.

[Patriot1776]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam#Jihad_as_the_sixth_pillar_of _Islam.3F

I'd like to point out this paragraph in this article

- A few Muslims, mainly belonging to the community of the Khawarij (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khawarij), hold that there is a sixth pillar of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_pillar_of_Islam), jihad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad) literally meaning "struggle" or "endeavor", often understood to refer to holy war. This is viewed by many as a misinterpretation, especially in the sense of conversion by sword (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conversion_by_sword&action=edit); however, if the English use of "war" is meant spiritually/metaphysically (such as being "at war" with one's conscience), as opposed to literal armed conflict, it is considered to be the most precise and accurate translation. While jihad is widely considered a duty of Muslims, the view that it is one of the pillars is not shared by most theologians.

- Modern interpretations of Jihad have contributed to the phenomenon of Islamic terrorism and particularly suicide bombers. Adherents are known as Jihadists or Jihadiis and have been involved in a number of spectacular mass murder events, including the notorious 9/11 massacres in the USA and the train bombings in Madrid and London. Within Islamic states there are frequent attacks aimed at followers of minority or rival communities of interpretation or secularised Muslims. Such acts are viewed as perversion of Jihad and un-Islamic by Muslims.

[KathyN]

- Modern interpretations of Jihad have contributed to the phenomenon of Islamic terrorism and particularly suicide bombers. Adherents are known as Jihadists or Jihadiis and have been involved in a number of spectacular mass murder events, including the notorious 9/11 massacres in the USA and the train bombings in Madrid and London. Within Islamic states there are frequent attacks aimed at followers of minority or rival communities of interpretation or secularised Muslims. Such acts are viewed as perversion of Jihad and un-Islamic by Muslims.




Since when there is a modern interpretation of an ancient philosophy?
I don't blame you, you just copied it, but I don't think that anyone has the right to change the meaning of what is written in an ancient source of belief or philosophy.

[clueless]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam#Jihad_as_the_sixth_pillar_of _Islam.3F

I'd like to point out this paragraph in this article

- A few Muslims, mainly belonging to the community of the Khawarij (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khawarij), hold that there is a sixth pillar of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_pillar_of_Islam), jihad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad) literally meaning "struggle" or "endeavor", often understood to refer to holy war. This is viewed by many as a misinterpretation, especially in the sense of conversion by sword (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conversion_by_sword&action=edit); however, if the English use of "war" is meant spiritually/metaphysically (such as being "at war" with one's conscience), as opposed to literal armed conflict, it is considered to be the most precise and accurate translation. While jihad is widely considered a duty of Muslims, the view that it is one of the pillars is not shared by most theologians.
Khawarij's are not Muslims, although there are two main types of Jihad in Islam. Jihad does indeed mean to struggle. 1- the greater Jihad, which is termed as Jihad-al-Nafs in Arabic. This literally translates as struggle against ones desires. 2- lesser Jihad, which is being involved in physical fighting. This link will help you understand Jihad: http://www.islamawareness.net/Jihad/types_jihad.html


- Modern interpretations of Jihad have contributed to the phenomenon of Islamic terrorism and particularly suicide bombers. Adherents are known as Jihadists or Jihadiis and have been involved in a number of spectacular mass murder events, including the notorious 9/11 massacres in the USA and the train bombings in Madrid and London. Within Islamic states there are frequent attacks aimed at followers of minority or rival communities of interpretation or secularised Muslims. Such acts are viewed as perversion of Jihad and un-Islamic by Muslims.
Correct.

[Patriot1776]

Since when there is a modern interpretation of an ancient philosophy?
I don't blame you, you just copied it, but I don't think that anyone has the right to change the meaning of what is written in an ancient source of belief or philosophy.

"Misunderstanding" would have been a better words, but I didn't write the article. I was primarily just trying to get the point across that Islam is not a religion of violence.

This misunderstanding, however, is no where near modern. The misuse of the word "jihad" has been around since the Fourth Crusade (Or at least in the Christian areas of the world).

P.S.- Thanks for the link clueless

[gprime]

Well, they are obviously wrong then. There's alot of things that Muslims go around saying which is at odds with what Islam actually stands for.

That would be fine to say if they were just political leaders. But when religious leaders of Islam say, then it does represent the religion.


Again, that's bull.

Well, all I did was quote the text. So there's no bull other than the notion that your religion is one of peace.


You are driven by the idea that you are so right that you can't even bare to listen to what Islam actually does stand for. If Islam was a religion of terror, i wouldn't believe in it. And before you say it, no i am not brainwashed. Religion has never been forced on me.

Say what you will. But before I made any opinions on Islam, I considered both sides of the debate and did research on my own. For most of my life I never assumed there was anything wrong with Islam. But after careful consideration, the truth becomes apparent to anybody who cares to listen.


The terrorists Muslim leaders are just changing the meaning of the words written in the Koran and making their own philosophies like Hitler did with the Darwin's theory...

Not that it matters, but you are of course incorrect on all counts. Spiritual leaders are clearly representative of a religion. And with the quotes as clear as they are, its not as if they need to bend the Koran. And on the Hitler count, his theories were not ever intended to be applied social darwinism, but was the (at the time) relatively modern psuedo-science of eugenics.

[clueless]

gprime, you're obviously looking in the wrong places then. Spiritual leaders who follow the true teachings of Islam wouldn't be saying something which goes against the teachings of their faith. You have extremists in every camp and i guess you've just been concentrating on them alittle too much.

Spiritual leaders do not represent Islam, they represent Muslims and with humans there are differences in opinion and such like. There is a one-liner that somebody once said to me and it's ringing true here: I am glad i met Islam before i met Muslims.

[KathyN]

gprime, you're obviously looking in the wrong places then. Spiritual leaders who follow the true teachings of Islam wouldn't be saying something which goes against the teachings of their faith. You have extremists in every camp and i guess you've just been concentrating on them alittle too much.

Spiritual leaders do not represent Islam, they represent Muslims and with humans there are differences in opinion and such like. There is a one-liner that somebody once said to me and it's ringing true here: I am glad i met Islam before i met Muslims.:agree:

[gprime]

gprime, you're obviously looking in the wrong places then. Spiritual leaders who follow the true teachings of Islam wouldn't be saying something which goes against the teachings of their faith. You have extremists in every camp and i guess you've just been concentrating on them alittle too much.

Spiritual leaders do not represent Islam, they represent Muslims and with humans there are differences in opinion and such like. There is a one-liner that somebody once said to me and it's ringing true here: I am glad i met Islam before i met Muslims.

Say what you will, but facts speak louder than assinine one liners.

[Bite-me]

Omg it doesnt actually seem that long? My mates were in woolworths when the 2 mins silence happened.